thread.cfm?threadid=76372#1353977

Subject: RE: Black Britons & Folk Music?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 11:22 AM

But contemporary adaptions of festivals like Notting Hill has no historic antecedents in Britain, so I don't think it is a legitimate example of black British influences on what most British folk music afficionados would refer to as "their peoples' music".

I would also point out that the example given by Greg doesn't exactly wash either. There is no evidence of African fiddle traditions influencing British folk music, because the blacks in Britain at that time didn't have indigenous African fiddle traditions to draw from, and would have assimilated themselves into the white British fiddle music traditions and not the other way round. There is no evidence I am aware of that shows blacks in Britain having African music traditions and instruments being adopted in Britain the way they were in the US and other parts of the New World like West Indies of Trinidad, Tobago, and also certain parts of South America--NOT EUROPE!!! That would come MUCH later.

That isn't to say there were no fiddle traditions in Africa at the time in question, because there were, but they were almost exclusively North African in origin, like imzad fiddle music. It is my understanding that there just weren't many North Africans living in Britain at that time (1700s), and the few of them there were, certainly didn't have the power or influence Greg is suggesting upon the English fiddle tradition, as their music tradition roots were from sub-Saharan Africa, and their presence in Britain being due to their participation in the British slave trade.

The 'New African Music' that Europeans are now familiar with has it's roots in the hybridized African, European, and American pop music influences that resulted from the slave trade in the New World, not in the indigenous folk music of Africa travelling directly to Europe. The music and traditions of calypso, carnival, etc came by way of the New World, and are unique hybrids based upon which European culture enslaved them. In other words, the Spanish/African influence gave rise to the tango and rumba, the French/African influence gave rise to biguine, and the Portugese/African influence gave rise to the samba.

It was the British who are mostly responsible for the colonization of the Caribbean, and so the combination of the British/African music traditions resulted in what is now known as calypso (from Trinidad). But Carnival's influence is directly related to the Christian festival, hence it's seeming "universality" among Europeans. The connecting factor is Shrovetide, of course, despite the very pagan nature of the festivals and their anti-religious fervor. Carnival is essentially a pagan rebellion against the Christian hegemonic grip upon the enslaved peoples of the New World, leading into religious orthodoxy and it's "sacrifices" forced upon them during the season of Lent.

Azizi, if you are interested in the call and response thing, you may wish to track down an excellent series done for American public radio by black American historian Dr. Bernice Johnson Reagon (also of Sweet Honey in the Rock fame). It was called "WADE IN THE WATER: AFRICAN AMERICAN SACRED MUSIC TRADITIONS." She devotes almost an entire program on the influences of call and response between the African slaves and the Scottish descendants of the Hebrides, who also used call and response in their hymn singing, upon both communities' music traditions. It's a fascinating subject.