Keith, This was the post Den posted earlier in case you didn't seen it. Are you replying to him ? Is this information here all true Keith ? If so it makes all your information look a little shabby.

I haven't been around here much in the last while. Just checking in on threads that pique my curiousity. It was, I suppose no surprise to see this one, started by Keith who it seems can't come to terms with the fact that his Government are so capable and adept at commiting evil. His statement above and I quote, "That all you have gained and more could have been had years ago with no killings", goes some way to summing-up Keith. How on earth could you possibly qualify that statement. You are either under the misconception that your Government can do no wrong or you are extremely naive in matters pertaining to the troubles in the north of Ireland over the last thirty odd years. I'm hoping for the latter.

Keith I know that you are fond of stats. So I want to provide you with some information. But before I do I'd like to say that yes I agree that the IRA have over the years been involved in killing and murder. Your charts bear that out. But in cases where charges were made those responsible were tried, convicted and sentenced to prison. I have never known one conviction brought against the security forces who were involved in the killing and murder of innocents in N. Ireland.

You claim that the army was brought to Ulster because of escalating violence, "The government had little choice but use the army with the level of violence threatening civil war", you failed to mention that it was violence against the nationalist population which brought the troops there. The British were pressured to choose an enemy and they chose the Nationalist population in general and the IRA in particular.
As is evident from your charts no protestant civilians have been killed or murdered by the army. You spoke of one ex-IRA member being remorseful over the murder of a child and you wonder how many more killings could be attributed because of false information. I think that is speculation. Many people showed up in allyways with hoods over their heads and noone claimed responsibility. Could they have been the victims of state sponsored terrorism? You see I am speculating here but you get my drift.

The sites I am about to direct you and anyone else who is interested to contain the names of all those killed during the troubles on the Nationalist side by security forces. Some of those listed were IRA volunteers on active service and I agree with Divis when he said that they knew the risks involved. Others were not on active service and killed. The vast majority however were innocent, mostly teenagers who have now become stats.

The first site here were victims of plastic bullets. Remember when Willie Whitelaw formewr secretart of state had thoght plastic bullets too lethal a force to be used against the Toxteth rioters. He had no such pangs of conscience in using them in the north of Ireland.

The next link will take you to information pertaining to those murdered by loyalists in collusion with the security forces.

The final one will take you to information on those killed or murdered by the british army.

The names are in alphabetcal order in groups of four or five. There is a little yellow triangle that will allow you to break-out more detailed information. To this day I don't know of one member of the army ever been convicted with any of these killings. And therein lies the difference Keith