I confess that I did not read this thread until early this morning. As an African American who grew up in the North in the 1950s I have almost the same aversion to the subject of Nazi Germany as I do to the subject of African American slavery & lynchings. At different times in my adult life I have avoided reading about these subjects as it hurts too much.

When I was growing up I {and I'm convinced many if not most Black people I knew} made no distinction between White people from different ethnic groups. I {and I'm convinced most Black people I knew} considered Jewish people to be White {and yes I know now that there are some non-European Jewish people-but I'm sharing what I believed then-and actually what I believed up to my experiences at a Swedish Lutheran college when I saw first hand White on White {or White on Jewish prejudice}. Given my belief that Jewish people were White, I think that the core of my aversion to thinking about Nazi Germany was that I felt that if White people hated "their own people" and could commit such atrocities against their own people, then there is no depths to the hatred they felt and the cruelty they could commit against people like me who are non-White.

My point-one of my points anyway-is that it is cathartic to read threads such as this one. While I'd rather think "we are all one regardless of race, creed or color" thoughts, in my opinion, the reality is we aren't even halfway there yet.

I grew up in an all Black neighborhood of a New Jersey city {all Black with the exception of a few interracial families-White wife/Black husband}. My elementary school had a Black male principal but all the teachers were White. Everything was segregated-the schools, YMCAs/YWCAs, birlscouts, boyscouts, dance classes, summer day camps, and churches. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that pre-1960s there were few opportunities where Black people could meet and interact with White children, youth, and adults. With few exceptions {such as our Black doctor, Black principals, Black church ministers, and church deacons} White people were the authority figures. I saw them in person from afar. I read about them in textbooks, in magazines, and in newspapers. I saw them on television. And I judged them as better than me.

It was not until my junior high years {11-12 years old} that I had Black teachers. It was also not until junior high school that I had White classmates. Thankfully, the myth of White superiority began to crack for me when I found out that academically I could do as well or better than many White students in my classes.

Unlike Wilfried Schaum's comment that "When we were old enough the problems of race and hate were taught extensively; we learned the whole sad history.", I can't recall any discussion of race in any public schools that I attended.

My recollection was that there was very little interracial socialization that occurred after school hours. I remember in those years that I had only one White girl-Leslie {who "happened to be Jewish"} who I considered my friend. However, that friendship died when her mother 'allowed' me over her homeone time, but she wasn't allowed over mine. The reason Leslie gave me was that her mother was afraid for her safety in my neighborhood. That really hurt as it was an insult not just to me and my family but to my entire-safe-neighborhood.

I didn't plan to share any of these comments. I planned to just say "Wolfgang, thanks for this starting thread. I found it very interesting". But having started to write just that, I felt those words weren't enough. I felt that I had to face and to share why for so long I avoided opening and reading this thread.

Wolfgang, in your 04 Oct 06 - 05:14 PM post you wrote:

"When I grew older (from 16 onwards, perhaps) I always found it 'disturbing' to live in this country"

"The contrast between the past and the present still disturbs me but I accept it now as unavoidable and even helpful."

"I think the present has to be permanently disturbed with reminders of this past lest we forget."

-snip-

In contrast to your statements, I would say that though I now feel very comfortable about my racial identity, I am still disturbed about living in a country-indeed-in a world that still considers Black as "less than".

While I think "things" have improved, I know that institutional racism and personal racism is not just a thing of the past.

But thank goodness for Mudcat. It is threads like this one which help us get to know each other better.

That said, I continue to wish that there were more people of color on Mudcat who could share their stories and learn from the stories that folks share here. I am convinced that there are other Black people and other people of color who are interested in exchanging information & opinions about folk music, blues, folk culture, and numerous other topics that we talk about here-including this one.

Hopefully, those individuals will find Mudcat soon.