I think winning would be us leaving Iraq after insuring that their police and military are interested in and capable of keeping a peace on their own; not just a bunch of Shi'ia militia eager to take on some troublesome Sunnis just down the road, or a group of Sunni militia or police willing to keep the peace, as opposed to nailing a local bunch of troublesome Shi'ites.

In short, Iraqi forces working for the betterment of their country, not to settle individual feuds or bad blood. Perhaps we needed a Saddam Husein in Iraq, a Joseph Stalin in Russia, or a Joseph Tito in Yugoslavia to keep all of these unhappy religious and ethic groups in line.

Dave