The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #98234   Message #1946205
Posted By: Genie
23-Jan-07 - 11:05 PM
Thread Name: BS: Spank, or No-Spank?
Subject: RE: BS: Spank, or No-Spank?
When spanking is outlawed, only outlaws will spank. ;-)

Desdemona, I've got to dispute your statement about research showing that spanking is never effective.   It's not so much the particular form of sanction (e.g., scolding, spanking, positive attention, etc,) that's been shown to be the key factor as the consistency (are there clear boundaries and rules?) and the social context (is the discipline done in the context of a close relationship or not).   (I'm not taking about beating or other injurious physical punishment, of course. But the threat of physical punishment can and sometimes does deter behavior if the 'laws' are clear; unfortunately, it may have unnecessary and unfortunate side effects if the punishment is severe.)

Kendall, I've gotta laugh at your "spine injury" post too, when I picture a 100-lb. mom giving her kid an open-handed swat on the bum and sending him to hospital.   If the kid's spine is that easily damaged, better not let him go skating, horseback riding, or play most any sport. ;-D

Hitting a kid just proves that big people get to hit little people? Yeah.    But big people are also the ones who protect little people.   And give them toys, take away toys, feed them, etc.   Parents get to, and are obliged to, do lots of things because they're "bigger."

Being slapped on the bum is not the most damaging kind of parental treatment that can happen to you. Especially not psychologically.   Abusive people can make "verbal instruction," "time out," or most any form of discipline abusive.

Slag, I couldn't agree more with this:
"Parental indifference, compensated by permissiveness and material possessions will turn out monsterous children as often or more so than those who are beat. It's just another form of abuse."
Some of the most "damaged" people got that way by never having any limits set whatsoever.

(Uh-oh! Here come the parenting cops to write you up for giving your kids too much candy and too many toys!)

Finally (since we're weighing in on all sorts of child-rearing tools), my 2 cents' worth on "harnesses."
This is just my (limited) experience with them.   When I was a kid I used to babysit a toddler (about 3 or 4 y o) whose mom would have me take him for walks using a harness. (On him, not me.) It was a regular chest harness with a "leash" that attached roughly between his shoulder blades. Now, I have absolutely no idea how this kid "turned out," but I can tell you that he seemed quite content with this set-up, as it allowed him to pretty much go wherever he wanted and at whatever pace, as long as he didn't go anywhere dangerous (like into the street).   He had a lot more freedom of movement and natural posture and movement than he would have if I'd had hold of one of his hands.
It did not seem odd or demeaning or abusive in the least.   

Obviously, it was such a practical, common sense technique that I'm sure the governmental agencies have banned it by now. *G*

Genie