The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #12515   Message #2015005
Posted By: Muttley
03-Apr-07 - 12:49 AM
Thread Name: Origin: Flower of Scotland (Roy Williamson)
Subject: RE: Flower of Scotland
Hrothgar; It was said that, though the Douglas was killed in that Crusade; one of his kin fought his way through the Moors and retrieved the casket Douglas hurled and carried it home to Melrose.

However, whether THAT Douglas was, indeed, "The Black Douglas" is open to debate.

There may have been several and, in fact the head of the clan may also have inherited the soubriquet along with the title of Earl - but it is unlikely that the one who hurled Bruce's heart was one of them

I will explain my reasoning:

Following is a precis of some information I picked up while touring Stirling Castle in late '05.

The garden which lies at the western end of "The King's Old Building" is known as 'The Douglas Garden' or 'The Black Douglas Garden'. It was onto this patch of ground that the body of William, the 8th Earl of Douglas was hurled in 1452 after having died at the hands of James II for refusing to break alliances James felt to be "against Royal Interests".
Apparently THIS Earl of Douglas was said to have been the type of personality who could offend one simply by riding past the end of their street - he was according to tradition "the most objectionable, haughty and arrogant man in the realm".
Records have it that James asked him to comply and he, typically and arrogantly refused and proceeded to upbraid his king, who thereupon "ripped him from navel to throat wi' his dirk". Other courtiers joined in and the luckless Earl's body was then tossed to the ground from a convenient window of the building which preceeded the "King's Old Building" on that site. Where he landed is now the "Douglas / Black Douglas Garden". This 8th Earl was aid to be the first referred to as "The Black Douglas"; apparently because of his objectionable personality.

So, given that the Douglas who attended the Crusade against the Moors in Spain did so in the early 1330's following The Bruce's death in 1329 while the latter, 8th Earl, was murdered about 120 years and 4 kings later and was the first (reputedly) to be referred to as "The Black" - it's unlikely the Crusading Earl was also The Black Douglas.

Muttley