Ed, this issue has come up a couple of times on Mudcat. There can be no definitive answer since there is no common ground semantically to discuss it.

I agree with you.

But when you talk about any kind of religious or metaphysical philosophical experience there is nothing to get a handle on. Everyone's definition is relegated to their personal experience or point of view and all objective criteria is out the window.

I believe that religion should be subjected to the rigors of scientific method but that doesn't set well with some here. Hence, no intelligent conversation can ensue.

It remains a matter of opinion.

Frank Hamilton