We have all heard of John Cage and Karl Heinz Stockhausen - neither of whom I believe were buskers. I doubt whether the idiots Muttley mentioned have ever heard of them. With all respect Robin, I fear we are in danger of thread drift here. The issue at stake is whether buskers can live in reasonable harmony with the other users of city centres. I'd prefer to do the music philosophy stuff on another thread and keep this one about the busking issues.