According to InOBU, the germ of the story about NATO and Ireland, and its relationship to the "controllable" war in Ireland? As France and Spain withdrew from NATO, we began to see, off the coast of Ireland, each fishing season, trawlers being towed under by their nets as British subs planted listening devices to monitor Soviet Subs which were using Ireland as a lee to lie of the coast of Britain.

Some factual points worthy of consideration having read the above:

1. France never withdrew from NATO. From 1966 until 1993 it partially withdrew from the combined military command of NATO, it still remained a full political member of the alliance.

2. Spain only joined NATO in 1982 and has never withdrawn from it.

3. Trawler/MFV/Submarine incidents. As presented by InOBU all ocuring off the coast of Ireland with, presumably, Irish fishing boats being towed under by evil 'Brit' subs. Well not according to the Celtic League reports, here is what they say on the matter:

**The Celtic League monitors military activity and, over twenty years up to 1993, we have built up the most comprehensive dossier of over 150 incidents involving submarines and MFVs. Included in this total were twenty suspicious sinkings and disappearances and over 150 deaths. What was clear to us in relation to most of these incidents was that the vessels, from Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Cornwall & Brittany, were solid, seaworthy and crewed by experienced men.

More pointedly, when the Cold war ended and the US and Soviet navies left waters around the British Isles, the number of incidents involving MFVs and submarines dramatically declined.

In 1993 the Celtic League ended its campaign for International action to close waters around the British Isles to submerged exercise activity. By this time, considerable action by both the Royal Navy and Internationally had been taken to address the problem.

The campaign "ended" with the laying of a wreath in a submarine exercise area in the Irish sea, the scene of many of the sinkings. The wreath contained the names of the twenty vessels and though our campaign is over the mystery of their loss and the many deaths remains.**

Obviously InOBU knows more about this than those who have been studying it for years, as according to him all these sinkings were in Irish waters (which they were not) and all were caused by British Submarines (which they were not). Over a period of investigation and monitoring covering twenty years there are 20 incidents involving the loss of fishing vessels that MAY, or MAY NOT, have been due to activity involving submarines.

Short sea story for you InOBU. In my time with the RN I did two training trips and operational patrols on 'A-Class' and 'P&O-Class' submarines. In both subs they took great pains to avoid fishing vessels at all costs even to the extent of abandoning exercises and surfacing if need be, to get out of their way. That was in the mid-60's to mid-70's InOBU. Can you offer any explanation as to why those practices would change subsequent to that period? I can't.

4. Now what were those 'evil Brit subs' doing according to InOBU? Laying 'listening devices' to listen to Soviet submarines. Unfortunately for InOBU's story, such listening was done by US Navy SOSUS chains, and guess what? Not a single one was laid or operated by the British and none were located off the coast of Ireland. In any event commercial cable laying ships were used to install them - not submarines, British or otherwise.

I have a question - Just what the hell as any of the above got to do with what was happening in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - Sweet FA as far as I can see.

InOBU's original contention was that NATO forces were stationed in a non-aligned country which would be Eire. If such was the case then he should have no problem in stipulating the units and the occasions they were stationed in Eire. If on the other hand he cannot he should stop wittering on about something that did not happen, claiming it to be a reason for other things that did.

Oh InOBU, the reason that the PIRA came into existance was because the Official IRA took one look at what was happening up North and rather sensibly decided that it required no action as left to take it's own course the 'Civil Rights Movement' would win. The 'Brits' had already moved in to disband and disarm the B-Specials (my first tour) and public opinion throughout Ireland and the UK was firmly on the side of the Civil Rights Movement. Within the ranks of the IRA, having British soldiers protecting Catholic/Nationalist areas was unacceptable and the PIRA was formed and waded in. Great pity if they hadn't, there would have been 3500 more Irish men, women and children who would have got a shot at life and a further 33,000 who would not have been beaten, broken and maimed.