Sorry for going off pop, but this is 3 out of 3 duff petitions as far as I can see, and it really winds me up.

As far as the petition goes, it's inconsistent with the facts, and it's even inconsistent with itself.

* The petitioner says he's concerned about calls from the Association of Chief Police Officers - actually the ACPO was just commenting on an Early Day Motion from an MP, made no such request itself.

* The EDM calls for "the replacement of glass with polycarbonate vessels in specific licensed premises". The petition asks for "a targeted approach". That's what's suggested. What are petition supporters complaining about?

* Quote: "...the motion proposes targeting only specific sites, rather than general areas, because, Grogan said, a wider ban would be a disproportionate response and would diminish the pub-going experience and customers' enjoyment." That's targeted. What are petition supporters complaining about?

* The ACPO spokesman says "We support the introduction of polycarbonate glasses into all premises with a history of violence or with a 'high-energy' clientele who could be most at risk in venues serving drinks in glass containers." That's a targeted approach, aiming for places with the most risk of fights. What are petition supporters complaining about?

* The petition itself asks for "a targeted approach" with plastic used on "a venue-by-venue basis", but then claims this will "disadvantage the entire pub trade because of poor management at certain establishments" - in other words, explicitly admitting that there *are* specific venue-by-venue cases where this is needed.

who is to say they won't eventually roll it out throughout the lot

Let's deal with it when it happens, maybe? The problem with the "thin-end-of-the wedge" theory is that it takes an idea that's sensible in itself and refuses to accept it because if the boundaries are shifted then unwanted stuff could happen. Say, refusing to accept 20mph speed limits outside schools because that's the thin end of the wedge to a country-wide 20mph limit on all roads. Or opposing congestion charging in the most jammed areas of major cities as the thin end of the wedge to roll in charging for all roads everywhere. It ignores the fact that a further decision must be made *and supported*.

The pub trade will say what's in the pub trade's interest - it's a business. But the good pubs already use plastic glasses in places where there's a risk. It costs them a little more (they can't be reused) but they accept that for the increased trade and improved reputation. So this really only affects badly-run places, and I don't think defending them for putting customers at risk is a way to run an industry.

Graham.