The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #104170   Message #2130230
Posted By: GUEST,PMB
21-Aug-07 - 04:17 AM
Thread Name: BS: Mutual respect
Subject: RE: BS: Mutual respect
While the majority of humans on earth have experience with the spiritual at least in some degree

That's not at all surprising- everyone has a "spirit". But don't make the assumption that the spirit is something independent of the physical body. I'm quite happy to talk about souls, even demons and possession- but to me the evidence is that they are, like the "mind" processes that occur solely within a physical structure, the brain.

Also, be careful of a shift of the meaning of words in mid- sentence. "Spiritual" can have a technical meaning in theology- relating the animating, perhaps immortal aspect of a living human- but it also has the everyday meaning of relating to those aspects of human culture that are not directly related to everyday living.

expanding that experience to an actual experience of divinity is not something many claim

Again, beware of conflation of meanings. By "divinity" do you mean relating to a non- human intelligence of higher-thatn-human powers, or (merely?) a feeling of transcendescent insight?

But I mustn't have explained myself very well. What I was driving at when I kicked off this discussion was to talk about, not the details of different people's beliefs, but the problems brought about by non- reciprocated tolerance- the feeling that some groups are exploiting this without attempting to do their part in return.

Back in the 70s, we in the anti-racist movement mounted all- night vigils to prevent attacks by racist groups on Asian- owned businesses. Now the sons and daughters of those same Asians are telling us that our society is worthless and is to be rejected completely.

Similarly, there is a growing anti- rational, anti- science movement in which people who have the leisure and health because of the advances of science and technology of the last 250 years, reject the very idea of evidence- based investigation and advocate (from the comfort of their homes, thanks to armies of public utilities workers, and via the electric internet) a return to the kind of life that kept so many millions in misery for so long.

So what I'm trying to say is that I want a proper debate, which you can't have with someone who has decided that they know all the answers already. There are many problems with our society; Asians are entitled to reject and despise those who would attack them, environmentalists are right that the blind exploitation of science and technology has caused many new problems (nuclear weapons and waste, environmental degradation, uprooting of whole societies, and resistant bacteria just to name a few). But an abdication of rational thought is no way to overcome these. Religion is one way of framing thought, and has offered and delivered much over the years (as well as the opposite). But it can not replace rationality, it can only supplement it- and mutual respect is needed as much between disagreeing religions, as between the religious and non- religious.