I'd just like to add a few comments there (allowing for the limitations of the internet as a communication media as mentioned above already!)

Mentioning the argument some people make for abortion, i.e in the case where the child might or will be born handicapped: It's seems logical enough, the parents will be spared the difficulty of raising such a child and the child itself won't have to live their lives as a half-human (sorry if anyone is offended by that last phrase, but that is what is implied by abortion for the handicapped).

The problems with this are:

As I mentioned already, every new human life from conception has to be taken as unique. By aborting a handicapped person we 1) tell them they are not fit to live 2) deny their humanity 3) make a decision about their right to live on their behalf without consulting them. Where then is the mutual respect and toleration? A handicapped person may or may not want to terminate their lives. Even when they are alive it would be probably be difficult in some cases to ascertain whether the handicapped person actually wants to live or die (e.g in cases of mental handicap), and of course it's currently impossible for us to know their opinion when they are developing in the womb. So who are we to make a decision like this over their lives? Would we like it if someone made the same unilateral decision on our behalf? Who are we to say such-and-such a person shouldn't even have their short span of life?

The Catholic Church (for one) has held that everyone, being a unique human life created by God, has the right to life (not that this stopped them from burning people at the stake, but disregard of the principle does not invalidate the principle) and only God can and should make the decision about when a person leaves this world (which is one reason why killing is wrong according to Christians). Kiling someone before God 'calls' them may mean they do not get the chance to fulfill the plan God had in store for them, and for which their killer will be held to account by God, whatever their reasons for killing were at the time. But I'm talking theology here now and I suppose some of you may have switched off already. But don't worry, I'll be back to 'rational thought' right after these commercials.... ;-))

The other similar argument is that a fetus is not solely-viable (i.e cannot live unsupported) and therefore cannot be regarded as fully human. It doesn't take too long to see where that argument logically leads. Many other humans cannot live unsupported either: how long do you think a 3-month old baby, a severly retarded adult or a very sick elderly person will live if left entirely to their own devices? None of those are fit to live either I suppose, and fit, healthy adults should decided on their lives and deaths for them.

Some have commented on how societies long ago often left out the weak and elderly, or the 'runts', to die. How does this support an argument in favour of abortion? Just because societies in the past were less civilised or hadn't the resources to look after their infirm doesn't give us the right to do likewise. It's a bit like the schoolboy who caught misbehaving says "but Sir, everyone was doing it!" I thought we were supposed to have climbed out of that primordeal slime, and certainly we don't lack resources, so it can only be that we are less civilised than we'd like to think. In my opinion the best hallamark of civilisation a society can have is in how it treats its most vulnerable memebers, and the unborn are surely the most vulnerable of all. Even the poor and discriminated against have a voice.

Then as 3refs said, what about the father's wishes (though if he were the rapist, I feel he has waived the right to call himself a father in the full meaning of the word)? There are two to make a baby, and what if the father desperately wants the child and offers to raise him alone?

I'd agree with LH that birth control is far preferable to abortion. But I also agree with Pdq that sex education doesn't always have the desired result. I suppose a lot depends on how it's done. Simply explaining the mechanics (as they did in my day) is the wrong way I think because sex cannot be divorced from feelings, emotions and responsibilites however much some people might try. And despite pills and condoms some unwanted pregnancies can - and do - occur. I think the best way is to educate children and teenagers to have respect for themselves and to love themselves (in the true sense of the word, and not in the egotistical sense) so that they value what they have, their bodies etc.,
Teenage girls should be aware (that like it or not) teenage boys can be very adept at emotional blackmail to get what they want, and teenage girls don't seem to have enough maturity all the time to say no and wait until they feel more comfortable about it (sorry, teenage lads, disagree with me if you want.... I wouldn't like to tar everyone with the same brushg but I've seen it often enough).

As for rape I know that's a very difficult one. The poor mother has had enough trauma already and then there's the horrible feeling that the child if born will just serve to remind her of her rape.

The first thing I'd say about that is that (in my country anyway) rapists get off WAY too lightly. Six years, eight years, ten years... it's not enough. A rapist has destroyed someone's life and it takes them ages to rebuild it. A 10-year sentence doesn't reflect that, especially as most sentences have years lopped off anyway for 'good behaviour' etc., Personally I think it's something else that should get lopped off, as a start, and I'm quite serious about that. It'd be the most effective way of preventing one kind of recidivism! Then the prison terms should be way upped and far less parole. Rape has to be made as unattractive to would-be rapists as possible.

But with all that, no-one ever seems to advocate the death penalty for the rapist (nor do I). Yet the unfortunate child, who is obviously quite innocent, is the only one who gets this sentence, when they aborted.

So I'd like to share a story with you - I've known at least two women (plus many more at more of a remove) who had babies in very difficult circumstances, both of them close friends of mine. Neither of them wanted their kids at the beginning, both had been deserted by their partners, both of them found the whole business overwhelming. There were lots of tears and wild pendulum swings of "I'll be the best mother in the world" to "I don't want this baby, I'll never bond with it" Turns out most of this is normal pregnancy stuff anyway, just all seems a lot harder and darker when you're also alone.

But of course they weren't really alone. First of all, once their respective families got over the shock, they rallied round. One family had money, the other didn't. But money wasn't what made the difference. It was emotional and moral support. Friends followed suite (real friends anyway). People helped out in whatever way they could. In the case of the first girl, I went with her to the ante-natal classes. It felt a bit weird at first but she wouldn't have gone alone. The classes (and it was a struggle to get her to go) helped her get things in perspective and the birth etc., all began to seem less daunting when broken down in small manageable steps. We were even given a tour of the delivery suite. I went in for the birth (an a amazing experience)

I helped her bring up her child for the first 18 months until she got on her feet and could manage. There was a lot to learn, but it was an experience well worth it. It was amazing how quickly she bonded with baby. One day I couldn't help remarking to her when she was complaining about being alone "you know, what you have there is something many people long for. Treat your child right and you'll have a friend for life and need never be alone" And in my opinion she - depsite all her misgivings - made a great mother.

Ok, so not everyone can take off the time to do this. I was lucky that I was unemployed at the time and it was no great sacrifice to do the stuff. I was amply rewarded by having had the pleasure of knowing that little person for that time and the delight of watching them grow, explore, develop. I am also aware that some people will still feel they would rather have an abortion despite whatever help might be offered, for whatever reason.

But I think abortion lets a lazy society off the hook. It lets irresponsible egotistical men off the hook. It lets an individuality-obsessed society off the hook. It sweeps unwanted people under the carpet. Funding single mothers and their kids through my tax money is one taxation I have no problem with. Obviously i'd prefer it for their sakes' and that of their childrens' that things worked out with their partners and the kids had both parents to raise them. But if it can't be helped, I think tax money spent on single parent allowance is money well spent. It has taken me some time to come round to this view, especially as rumours of some women 'getting pregnant to get the social welfare' does the rounds from time to time (though, for those who believe such stories, it seems a lot of work for not much money). But I am now firmly convinced it is far better to live in a society where single mothers and their children get the help from the State they need, at least.

This is where once again I find myself at the rationality of Christianity, that teaches us we are not isolated islands, but that we have a duty to our neighbour ("and who is my neighbour?" asked the young man, so Jesus told him the story of the good samaritan). Logical human-only rationality could be used to convince myself I had a good case in simply looking after my own interest, in investing my resources only in myself (and I have done this from time to time also, more often than I'd like) - I again refer to the example of Grenouille from 'Perfume' who was not simply "obsessed' (as someone said back up this thread), but had his own peculiar rationality with which to justify that obsession. Christian rationality will not allow me this. And in the end of the day, this is far better for our society.

Ok, that's enough out of me for the moment, sorry for going on so long!!