Nice to see your comment, Metch.

As to legal action, dianavan, we are considering doing just such a thing on behalf of our members who were detained without cause. The whole idea that it is OK, with a very vaguely worded warrant, to check every person who looks hispanic at gunpoint and while in cuffs, never mind that no one had done anything to suggest that either measure was necessary, runs counter to everything this country SUPPOSEDLY stands for. Those of African descent were outraged at the issue of racial profiling a few years back. Where is the outrage now?

pdq, unfortunately, represents a view that we see to often. They let their biases about an issue allow them to rationalize actions that run counter to what this land stands for. In the mid 1800's the Nativists/No Nothings had the same attitude toward the Irish and German Catholic. And Bill the Butcher is alive and well in the USA today.

Your questions, pdq, are loaded. You are trying to establish a predicate for your arguments which insure your success in the debate. Apparently you have so little respect for the intelligence of your fellow 'Catters that you believe they won't see through this rather amateurish tactic.

I reduce the argument to different questions. 1) Suppose I agree that illegal immigration is a problem that needs addressing (I do, by the way). What is it about this that justifies rounding up 1300 people, detaining them for hours, and in some cases, days at gunpoint, and terrorizing them? 2)Forget the immigration issue. Suppose your daughter or wife were refused bathroom privileges, and then made to go with a door open and an agent watching. 3) What is it among folks like you that causes you to justify the actions of Homeland Security that clearly fly in the face of what we stand for, of the 4th Amendment of our own Constitution? Would you like Freedom of Speech to be the next to go? How about limiting songwriters to songs that only support the efforts of the government so we don't incite citizens? It is, after all, in support of our security?

Mick