The thread has turned down semantic cul-de-sac a while ago! If the "pro-lifers" think a sperm and egg produce a human at the point of conception, the killing of the cells (human) thus formed is murder. If the "pro-choicers" viewpoint is that humanity occurs at a later date, an abortion (prior to that date) is not murder. We have Shroedingers' cat again, with the act being resolved as murder/ not murder when we can decide on the "humanity" of the Cells/ Foetus/ Child. Until you can argue convincingly one way or the other you cannot decide on the relative guilt or innocence of those involved! If you do take the Pro-life side you should be consistant enough to apply it to ALL cases ie: Car crashes/ Fights/ Parachute jumps (there is a proveable failure rate of the chutes) ...... or foreign occupation by "your" troops. I Won't even mention arms sales in this threrad!