The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #105328   Message #2169851
Posted By: Don Firth
12-Oct-07 - 04:49 PM
Thread Name: BS: Here We Go Again: Oral Roberts
Subject: RE: BS: Here We Go Again: Oral Roberts
CREDO

My family was what I would call 'spiritual," and we did go to church often when I was young, but we never subscribed to any particular denomination. My mother especially read a lot about Eastern beliefs. She had a lot of questions, but she wasn't willing to accept just any old answers. I'm pretty much the same way, I guess. I maintain that spirituality, religion, or philosophical belief is—or, at least should be—a "way of life," and it should enlighten how you live your life and how you treat other people.

Is there a God? I have no idea. Neither do you. If there is some sort of Supreme Being who created all of this, then it will be an entity so different from what we, as mere humans, are able to even contemplate or conceive of that, although an interesting object of speculation, the idea that someone may know what is "in the Mind of God" is downright delusional!

Do I have an after-life? Other that having been preached at a lot, I have no reason to believe so. But I don't rule the possibility out. After all, I've read enough science fiction and science fact and speculation (e.g., Parallel Worlds by theoretical physicist Michio Kaku, dealing with string theory, multiple dimensions, and the likelihood of "multiverses"). Who knows? When you die, you may just wink out. But I (like most people) have a hard time conceiving of my own non-existence in one form or another. Perhaps when my time comes, my awareness simply slips into another dimension or "multiverse" and starts another life.

Personal salvation? Being "saved?" Being "washed in the Blood of the Lamb?" (Sounds kinda messy!) Doesn't concern me. I figure that if I'm true to my own ethical and moral code and maintain my own personal integrity, I'll be all right whatever happens to me when I topple off the twig. I figure that if there is an afterlife, it will be a whole new adventure. It will have little to do with harp-playing angels, pink clouds, and streets paved with gold (kinda garish, that—also sounds sorta boring, especially if it lasts for Eternity!). Nor will it have anything to do with Satan and Eternal Hellfire. These are all human constructs.

Do you need the reward of Heaven (cookie), or the fear of Hellfire (spanking), to prevent you from misbehaving and keep you a good person? If so, you're still a child. You've never actually grown up.

If there is an afterlife, it will be entirely different from what we think. BUT—if there is no afterlife, I will have no awareness with which to be disappointed! So why sweat it?

So—I go to church from time to time. Why? Nice bunch of people. The pastor talks mostly about being kind to each other and helping each other in times of need, matters of peace, non-violent conflict resolution, moral and ethical issues (beyond the merely sexual ones that many church leaders seem to be so hung up on). Excellent music director, several good musicians. Good choir that tackles, not just the standard hymns, but a bit of Bach or Mozart from time to time. And a bit of ritual that helps to keep one grounded sometimes. And not much in the way of the usual religious clichés.

And being a Lutheran church, the after-service cuppa coffee is regarded as one of the Holy Sacrements.    :-)

And the members of the congregation, including the pastor:   I can't imagine any one of them saying something like "Have you discovered Jesus?" or "Have you allowed Jesus into your life?" I think they would choke and have a purple-faced coughing fit before they could get anything like that out!

Spirituality is a matter of questions. Creation—Life, the Universe, Everything—is Very Mysterious. One scientist (and trying to separate religion and science seems to lack a certain Cosmic Integrity) has said that we know only about 4% of what there is to know about the Cosmos. The problem is that the more we learn, the more we learn how much more there is to learn, and that figure goes down to 3%. Questions. What is the meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything?" "42" is as good an answer as anything else you're laible to hear, in church or out.

Anybody heard Iris Dement's song "Let the Mystery Be?"

Religious dogma—any religious dogma—is the enemy of spirituality.

Don Firth