The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #105604   Message #2175841
Posted By: Richard Bridge
21-Oct-07 - 07:47 AM
Thread Name: Froots Board?
Subject: RE: Froots Board?
1. How do you know it was originated rather than used by him?
2. The Scots too seem to have the concept of non-self-aggrandisement, some of the time. It escapes some others.
3. Your objection to the phrase has hitherto mostly been its adoption not its origination.
4. You use the phrase to attack many - mostly not those who act as managers or agents, and if you re-read your original post, after your suggestion that agents are not parasites (maybe symbiotes?) you re-use the phrase and the FLA (Four-letter-acronym) you create, "GEFF", for a general swipe at many.
5. The idea that artist management and agency are professions, rather than trades or businesses, is innovative. It does not wash as a way to wriggle out of the general thrust of your post, which is elitist, sneers at many folk performers, and is therefore offensive.
6. Most of us already know you don't or didn't like Alex Campbell. Yet, in the sense of a professional (ie paid) as distinct from an amateur (ie unpaid), he undoubtedly was a professional performer, sometimes indeed often of folk music, as the recordings bearing his name bear witness. He also wrote at least one good song (So Long) which survives and seems to be starting to be carried into the tradition, with modifications.
7. Your apparent suggestion that being a professional connotes permanent excellence may not be supported by the evidence - as you might suspect seeing the number of Chuck Berry live solos that staggered to a finish on a totally bum note and had belatedly to be slid into key. Indeed many from the 60s could testify that the agents and managers they used, although charging considerable fees, were not in fact competent or even honest. I know of one folk agent, not long ago, who intentionally inveigled herself (so I will make it clear it wasn't Jacey Bedford) into doing a hosting gig that one of the acts she represented was sought for. "Professional" and "Good" are not identities.
8. Even if they were, the amateur is the wellspring of folk music. Sneer at us and condescend to us and we will respond appropriately, even if it is not "civilised" to do so.
9. You don't seem to have got the point I was making about "prolier than thou". The mere fact that something is working class or even from the underclass doesn't necessarily make it "folk" and doesn't necessarily make it good. Nor does it necessarily make it bad.
10. Many of us object to the fact that the movers and shakers often think that they should get to keep most of the nuts. It isn't necessarily a zero-sum game, but if too much of the heat is taken out, the reaction becomes endothermic. They can be good catalysts, or they can be inhibitors.
11. If agents and managers are so virtuous, why do some even of your supporters prefer to adminster thier own affairs?
12. And if your objective was to praise agents and managers, why bother to take a gratuitous sideswipe at the majority of the performers - the amateurs?