Sedayne, I have said several times why I brought my friend into this discussion as an example and I have also explained fully why I'm not prepared to give full details of any of her family trads. I have offered you the chance to ask me more searching questions by pm, which neither you nor Les has chosen to do. As I haven't been impressed so far by your ability to continue any kind of informed discussion I'm not overly optimistic about how much value this would be anyway. I don't know why you find the idea of some hitherto unknown British traditions fantastical - we only know anything about any traditions because collectors have collected them, and I simply don't accept that collectors have visited every corner of the British Isles, or spoken to every family. I've never received a visit from one myself - have you? However, see my posts above with regard to Prof Ron Hutton, who met my friend but didn't ask one single question. I was present at this meeting and couldn't believe that someone who had taken the time to collect all of that written evidence clearly wasn't even slightly interested in a family who were, as you put it earlier, a cultural treasure of great price.

The reason I find your posts hostile (as well as most of Les's) is that you have both found it necessary to challenge every single thing I've said, mostly by bringing in all manner of totally spurious comparisons and generally poured cold water on most of what I've put forward. Why not keep an open mind? And I can only assume you were frightened in your cradle by a pagan, judging by the way you've been reacting.

As someone who has made an in-depth study (degree and postgrad) of the troubadours, however, I'd love to see your evidence for their cultural and spiritual links with the Cathars. Chapter and verse, please, and in the original occitan rather than second-hand views from commenting authors. No, of course there are no links with paganism (ancient or modern) or the winter solstice, but the links with the Cathars are very much a debatable territory (much loved by readers of authors like Dan Brown).

Anne