Speaking of raw deals, how 'bout the way the Clintons have run a dishonest, divisive, unprincipled, race baiting campaign?

Folks here may be interested in listening to*-as I do-this conversation over at dailykos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/19/194727/333/630/439733
"some thoughts about Bill Clinton and Nevada"
by kid oakland
Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 06:04:39 PM PST


[*"Listening to" means being a lurker and not an active participant in the conversation. Of course, some folks may be interested in joining in that conversation or have already joined in that conversation. I haven't since I prefer to be active in only one Internet community, and for me it's Mudcat]

Selective comments:

"IMO ... If it comes down to McCain as the Repub
nominee vs Hillary as ours we will not stand a chance in hell of winning the Whitehouse. We'll loose all the middle votes if that is the choice offered ... IMO.
-by Alizaryn on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 09:55:04 PM PST

**

"And the blacks..... who have been shocked and dismayed by these turn of events and by Bill's antics. I should know as I am one. I support Obama but I have loved the Clinton's since I was a kid. I would have had no trouble voting for Hillary if Obama didn't get it. But then Clinton lost Iowa and all these things started with Bill. He was so angry and upset by Obama winning. He butted into the race, not as a husband of the candidate but using his clout as President to totally lie about Obama's record. His actions and his words about Obama have shocked me. Him going down to a caucus to influence voters to vote for his wife has shocked me and made me depressed.

This is not to say that I won't vote for Hillary if she got the nom, but I won't be enthused about it. Excited. I will merely be, once again, voting against someone instead of for them.

And that hurts. It really really does."
-by Niwind on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 06:33:59 PM PST

**

I feel you.
I have spoken with many family members and friends and what I get is this, "If she is the nominee, I won't vote for her." White folk need to understand this. If black folk get mad like this, and they are across the country, they will not show up to the polls. The Clintons KNOW THIS.
-icebergslim on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 06:36:35 PM PST

**

Honestly its not even about Obama, but it's all about the preception. AA thought that the Clinton's were their friends and that they would never do the things they are doing now. I still remember Michael Baisden telling Bill that it wasn't the fairytale remark that pissed the black community off, it was his tone. His angry tone about the fact that Hillary was beaten by Obama, almost like "Who does he think he is?" type of tone that pissed us off. And he's right.   

To have that betrayal is hard, especially if you've admired them for years. And that is what the AA community is reacting to.
-by Niwind on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:09:29 PM PST


**

"What is going on here???
We have moved this race to the 1 on 1 stage. We are either tied or beating her in delegates, we are headed into SC where he is 9 points up. Southern states comming up have large AA populations, he is challenging her even in NY. Want to know why Bill is talking about knocking on peoples door in SC and they are going to be holding hands in church in NY because they cannot close the deal without AA suppport. That is part of the calculation that they could do whatever and still win, please SC can hold the line, they know it and they will. The Clintons know they have galvanized the AA vote with their tactics. We cannot start folding our tent when we are still have a chance to win.

by jazzyjay on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:41:10 PM PST

**

"jazzy, no one is folding ANYTHING...
today was a WAKE UP CALL for both sides. this will be a slugfest to the damn end. but nothing wrong with talking scenarios. my first is President Obama, first foremost. but having a damaged Clinton at the top of the ticket is not news to many states ears. her challenge was winning today, but did she? no. she could not win NOTHING outside of clark county in nevada. where obama showed his prowness and won OUTSIDE of clark county and enough in clark county to win the delegate race, which is technically the caucus. she just showed how damaged she is in a 'swing state'.

that is how elections are won, with a coalition."
-by icebergslim on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:48:35 PM PST

**

"Same thing that I see and I am not black.

The topic came up more in MI because the powers that be that campaigned for Hillary here (gov and Senator) when asked if this move where voters had no choice, no voice would split the party they happily shrugged it off.

No, we'd all gather around the nominee and work hard for her. Would we?

We watch the campaigning. No, we really won't gather round. This isn't about our candidate of choice winning or not but the ways they are trying to beat him.

Their victory seems to matter more to them than the good of the people, the party or the country.

It is a betrayal."
-by joynow on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:37:13 PM PST

**

Clinton is seriously turn me off.
I am not AA, but I am a woman of color and the divise tactics that the Clintons have used has me incensed. I was completely open to her as the nominee. I thought she had the ability to be a good president, but since she has shown a willingness to throw good democrats under the bus to advance herself, I no longer think so. She is as selfish as her husband. I'll pobably vote in the general for her if she is the nominee but won't feel bad for her after the republicans get through with her. Karma is a witch afterall.
-by gatoazul on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 08:20:18 PM PST

**

All of this is why Clinton is toast in November
If she gets that far, she'll frankly be fortunate to get 40% of the vote. The Republicans appear poised to nominate the candidate their candidate that is most acceptable to swing voters, while Democrats are flirting with nominating a divisive, unelectable candidate that independents won't vote for.

Further, Clinton has angered some union members. She's also irritated the NRA members with her "I'm against illegal guns," comment because to them there are no illegal guns. She pissed off the peace crowd with the Iran vote. And she's pissed off the African Americans, who are breaking 5-1 for Obama only a month after it's been 50/50. If she gets the nomination, the Democratic coalition (blacks, women,anti-war activists, young voters, union members, etc) is in tatters.

Her only dim hope is to put Obama on the ticket with her. But she can't do that. Her entire primary campaign has been, "He's not ready to be President." So do you put somebody who is "not ready to be President," a heartbeat away from the Presidency? She can't. There is one other black statewide elected official--Gov. Patrick, and he is less experienced than Obama. Given that VP candidates usually have to be statewide officials, she's up the creek. The only possible out is Jim Clyburn for VP and I doubt she'd do that. If she picks someone like Bayh, she's given the Republicans a giant opening, which McCain will seize upon by choosing JC Watts as his running mate. Not only do blacks state home in this equation, many will even vote for McCain.

This is all why national polls show McCain 49 Clinton 38. It's conceivable that Hillary loses every state. Her nomination would also be disastrous in the swing house districts that the new majority was won in. If the party chooses to shoot itself in the foot again, it can. Nominating Hillary would be doing that. She may win the nomination with this, but in reality she's only ensuring that she'll lose with this b*llsh*t.
-by The Bagof Health and Politics on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 09:40:07 PM PST

**

I will vote for her, but that is the limit.

I can not work for somebody who has conducted a campaign designed to split the Democratic coalition.

Yeah, it worked.

We are split.

It will take work and agressive fence mending to get me to support anything she does.

I do not trust her any more than I trust Terry McAuliffe or Karl Rove.

Yeah, if she is the nominee, I will mark an "X" on election day. But I will do that with deep, deep regret and that is all I will do to help her campaign.

There was no reason to conduct such a negative race-based campaign and yet, that is what she choose to do.

I, for one, am disgusted.
-by dengre on Sat Jan 19, 2008 at 07:05:35 PM PST


-snip-

Note:

Reflecting my own sensibilities, I edited that "b" word in that next to the last comment that I reposted.

Also, in this discussion, AA=African Americans