"A Palestinian is someone who originates, or whose predecessors originated from the area that is now the West Bank, Gaza, or East Jerusalem. I also use the term in reference to Arabs who originated in what is now Israel and who were expelled from there or who fled from there during the Nakba." - CarolC's definition of a "Palestinian" - as usual it is not correct.

On the question of refugee's with a "right of return". What a Palestinian was was defined by the UN. And guess what CarolC they did not have to have originated from, or ever to have had predecessors who had originated from the area.

"The conflict began in a similar fashion to the conflicts between indigenous Americans and the Europeans who were taking over their land. The Palestinians being in the same position as the indigenous Americans, and the European Jews being in the same position as the Europeans who invaded the Americas. No one had a right to come to either place with the intent of taking it over, and that was the original act of aggression."

If that is what you sincerely believe CarolC what are you doing about returning the US to the idigenous Americans? What are you doing about granting their right of return to their lands? Little, or nothing, I would suspect.

Your premise above of course, historically, is seriously flawed as it depends on start dates. How far back in the history of the geographical area known as Palestine do you want to go CarolC? I suspect for yourself and the likes of Guest TIA and Barry Finn the start date is around the time of the start of the Civil War which started on 30th November 1947, or 15th May 1948 when Israel declared independence. All previous history to you and your fellow travellers is conveniently considered irrelevant. You, by your own admission, deny the Mandate Period and the unprovoked attacks and attrocities that were committed against the Jews by Arabs during those years. You might deny them, as some equally selective people chose to deny the "Holocaust" of the Nazi era in German history, but that doesn't alter the fact that it did happen, it does not alter the fact that it had a relevant "knock-on" effect.

Of course if you look back through the recorded history of ancient times the indigenous people were the Jews, "the children of Israel". They were driven off their land by Arabs, who, as we advance through the centuries, were conquered by the Ottoman Turks about 500 years ago when they took Palestine. So CarolC whose land did the European Jews take over CarolC and when? It could be argued that the European Jews were undoubtedly descendents of the original inhabitants driven out by the Arabs, so what of their "right of return"? While on the subject of people moving into the area known as Palestine, I notice CarolC that you are remarkably reticent about the extent Arab migration into Palestine and what it was that drew them in.

On arrival CarolC you can no doubt tell us of the first instance of this conflict between the "not-so-indigenous-as-one-might-think" Palestinians and "the European Jews" where "the European Jews" were "taking over" the land.

If you cannot CarolC, I can, I already have on this thread - 1st March 1920 at Tel Hai where the Arabs attacked Jewish villages that had been established on land legally bought and paid for and farmed for about 30 years.

Here is another of those "lies" you are so keen to deny, despite the fact that the events associated with them most definitely did occur. Now what was your contention again CarolC:

"The conflict began in a similar fashion to the conflicts between indigenous Americans and the Europeans who were taking over their land. The Palestinians being in the same position as the indigenous Americans, and the European Jews being in the same position as the Europeans who invaded the Americas."

Tell us about the Massacre at Hebron in 1929 CarolC. The Jewish population of Hebron in 1929 had lived there for a recorded and documented period of at least 800 years CarolC, so chances are that they had lived there for long before that. Now CarolC tell everybody who it was that killed all those "not-so-European-Jewish-settlers" of Hebron in 1929? Who was it that drove the remainder from their homes in terror and caused them to flee? Who was it that took over their property? Have they, or their descendents any right of return? Not according to you, Guest TIA, Barry Finn, or any of your Arab Palestinian friends.

For those interested in the pretext for the Arab attack on that long established, ancient, indigenous Jewish population of Hebron. It was falsely reported and completely unfounded rumours of attacks on Arabs in Jerusalem by Jews - Now to anybody who has actually studied the history of Palestine that should have an extremely familiar ring to it - sound familiar to you at all CarolC?