The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #108931   Message #2277525
Posted By: meself
02-Mar-08 - 02:31 PM
Thread Name: BS: Mudcat Is Difficult For People Of Color
Subject: RE: BS: Mudcat Is Difficult For People Of Color
"were you serious or cracking a joke when you wrote that "(I hear that now they've even begun to spell 'doughnut' as 'donut'!!)?"

That was an attempt at humour - or should that be 'humor'? 'Doughnut' is the standard spelling outside the U.S. In the last few years, the spelling 'donut' has been sneaking illegally across the border into Canada ...

"do people in Europe [still] use the referent "Oriental" to refer to Asian people?"

I don't know. I used it myself until fairly recently, when I noticed that everyone seemed to be saying 'Asian', and I sensed I'd missed some shift in the zeitgeist. As with every pc term, there's an objection: mine to this one is that it's so exceedingly vague - Asia can include everything from Russia to Japan ... But I'm not going to get worked up over it ...

"were you referring to the article I posted or my theory about the importance of Asians having never bought the meme from White people that they {Asians} were inferior, and that Asians had/have a strong sense of group esteem because they know that they are connected to a specific nation and culture?"

I was referring to 'your theory'; I think it's right on the money. This matter of 'feeling inferior' is the basis of much if not all the problems we've been talking about. I don't think it's often spoken of, probably because it's uncomfortable to admit - and I applaud your forthrightness in doing so - and it's not widely understood. So, for instance, a white person may justify his intolerant attitude in regard to racial issues by saying that some African-American kid called him a 'honky', without realizing that the exasperation and/or fear he felt at the time is not the same thing as the 'pain' that Hilda Fish spoke of in the message you quoted. Being annoyed by some insolent kid is not the same as having someone use language to inflame an old and deep wound - as you of course know. By the way, I speak as a white person who has spent a great deal of time as a distinct minority, and has experienced once in a while what I could call 'reverse racism' - including being questioned by white police and border guards for being the lone white person among a group of non-whites. But I never felt that this gave me more than the remotest sense of what real racial discrimination is like.

Another point worth noting in regard to this idea of 'feeling inferior' is that it is perpetuated by family dysfunction and social problems, so that even though legal impediments and social sanctions against 'progress' may be removed, psychological and emotional barriers remain. Again, as you know, but it seems a bit of a subtle notion for people to grasp who haven't been through it or seen it close up.

More later (I'll get to Richard's comments, but I've got to get to work here ... )