Lay off what, embow? Just a great discussion going on here, imo.

Jen, it begs the question of the difference between complete trust in god, a rarity in my opinion, and a denial of responsibility for self...I know some people like that. They think they are letting god have her/his way with them, but really what they are doing is playing a manipulative game of "well, this is my plight because god has willed it!" Which, imo, just means they are trying to abdicate responsibility for their own lousy decisions in which they *keep control* by exerting their OWN will, even passively.

It's all about whether one can really *give it up* and trust totally in one's god or not, isn't it?

Mrr, excellent quote.