Jim Carroll

"Were the communities that the songs were collected from were represented at Sao Paulo?"
No they weren't, and I find the suggestion that they should have been somewhat odd.
As much as I admired Sam Larner and Phil Tanner, I couldn't imagine them to speak on behalf of say a Lancashire weaving community or a Durham mining village, let alone communities in Spain, Finland, Rumaina... and all the other places covered by the definition.

But Cecil Sharp can speak on behalf of Norfolk fishermen, Maud Karpeles on behalf of Gower farm labourers?

You previously said "Any definition of a specific activity must surely be that which is articulated by its practitioners (and articulators)."

To my mind,Sam Larner, Phil Tanner, the Coppers, Fred Jordan, Walter Pardon... are the practicioners but it is "somewhat odd" to suggest that they should have been involved in Sao Paulo. It seems that the articulators (whoever they are) are the only ones that matter.

I would suggest that any challenge would be best aimed at the definition itself rather than the somewhat ingenuous approach of undermining the authority of its authors.

I am not undermining their authority to define the music, just the authority to define the meaning of words already in use in the English language. "Folk" had been in use for a long time before 1954. You bizarrely say that your 19th century books "will cease to have a meaning" if the definition is abandoned. Had they been meaningless for the previous hundred years? Woody Guthrie was known as a folk singer. He was 42 in 1954.

The definition is fine, it's just the claim to exclusive use of the
word that causes problems.

Incidentally, the programme at the Royal Oak last night (guests Judy and Dennis Cook) included versions of Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight (Child #4), Sir Patrick Spens (Child #58) and Jellon Grame (Child #90) as well as many other traditional songs and tunes. Nobody sang a Beatles song, I haven't heard one in a folk club for about twelve years. There were some non-traditional songs from 19th C to modern and the evening was rounded off with Ta Ra Ra Boom Di Ay. I really don't think this did any damage to folk music.