The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #112282   Message #2374877
Posted By: Wolfgang
26-Jun-08 - 12:04 PM
Thread Name: BS: The Reincarnation Game
Subject: RE: BS: The Reincarnation Game
People love saying that there's "no evidence" for stuff they don't want to believe in in the first place. And they confirm it for themselves by completely avoiding all the available evidence or else refusing to allot any time to studying it or giving it serious and unbiased consideration... ;-) Thus is their chosen form of ignorance constantly re-affirmed to their own satisfaction. (Little Hawk)

This is your usual entrance sentence to these discussions which I have read at least ten times. Now was once too often. I think it is time to say how little you know about scientists and skeptics. I really pity you, Little Hawk, if that is your approach if you do not want to believe in the first place. You have been missing a humbling, embarrassing but altogether healthy experience in your life: to be forced to change your mind about something by evidence.

That's one of the main idea in science: to ask questions in a way that you can be shown to be wrong about something. I have in my life been completely wrong about something major at least three times and I have found out by looking at the evidence. Yes, all three times it was something that meant a lot to me personally (in one case it was even a theory linked to my name among German colleagues). But I was wrong though I would have loved to be right. In the one case, the evidence in a new experiment performed by one of my students was simply not as my (pet) theory on that field said it should be.

What you describe is a fine description of the approach of the believer, but not of the skeptic (there might be some, but I despise them). To find out to be completely wrong about something is one of the noblest experiences one can have (though not necessarily in the very moment one finds out, and surely also not in the moment one has to tell the colleagues at the next congress, forget my theory, I was wrong). But these are experiences I would not like to have missed in my life.

Sorry for you if it is so different for yourself and you do not approach evidence with an open mind. But please, do not assume that all people are like you.

Let me finish with a quote from a very prominent skeptic, Basava Premanand, chairman of the Indian skeptics, who is know for being able to recreate what Indian fakirs and gurus claim to be able due to supernatural forces:

At the end of the lengthy discussions we had with Premanand on the mysteries of the East, which no longer appeared as mysteries, there was one more thing that Basava Premanand told us. "You know, I told you I had one desire: to create a research center in India for the investigation of psychic phenomena. Well, to tell you the truth I also have one other wish."

"And what is it?" we asked.

"It's simple, I'd like to witness a real miracle before dying."

I think that could be a wish that many of us would subscribe to...
(from Notes on a strange world)

These are skeptics to my taste and not the caricature you try to shoot down but only end shooting yourself in the foot.

Wolfgang