The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #112808   Message #2394815
Posted By: Teribus
22-Jul-08 - 03:36 AM
Thread Name: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
Subject: RE: BS: War is over. The surge has succeeded!
Taking apart "Historian" and Strategist/Tactician" Ron's post first:

Point 1:
"As I said, it's thanks to the US (and Maliki's) rejection of your brilliant idea that the Sunnis were like Nazis at the end of World War II that much of the improvement has happened in Iraq."

Now Ron, being the student of history and misinformation that you are you will realise that Maliki was not in power when I made the statement re the perception of other Iraqi's would be to view the Sunni Arabs and the Ba'athists that they supported like people viewed the Nazis at the end of World War II. You will also remember that at that time the Sunni Arabs of central Iraq were supporting both the Ba'athist remnants insurgency and the terrorist campaign mounted by the late Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Again if you remember correctly, instead of conveniently and selectively as you are most prone to do, people were dying in droves and both these groups were trying their utmost to foment a "Civil War" in Iraq.

What I advocated at that time was that the Sunni Arabs of central Iraq had to realise was that their best hope lay in joining the emergent political process and throwing in with the Interim Government and turn their backs on the insurgents and terrorists who could only deliver them death and destruction.

You on the otherhand at that time insisted that the Interim Government had to more or less capitulate to Sunni Arab demands and the ongoing insurgency because the war against them was unwinnable.

As predicted by myself, the activities of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi led to a Shia backlash, and all of a sudden the Sunni Arabs of central Iraq realised that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and the Ba'athist insurgents could not protect them from this onslaught, only the US troops of the MNF and the newly created Iraqi Army could. So again as I predicted when the Sunni Arabs of central Iraq did abandon their support for the insurgency and turned their backs on the organisation that was now known as "Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq" that things got decidedly better all round.
   
Point 2.
"If you don't know Petraeus has in fact reached out to Sunnis--as I counseled years ago-- your ignorance is even greater than I had feared. Don't you ever do any research?"

I believe the question I asked Ron in response to your statement that General Petraeus had reached out to the Sunni's as recommended by yourself was - Can you give us any examples? Your failure to do so has no doubt been noted. Do you have any examples of General Petraeus following the "Davies Doctrine"?

Point 3:
"And if you don't realize that al-Qaeda is its own worst enemy--for exactly the reason I stated-- you need to start reading something other than the Sun--or whatever your sources have been."

Eh Ron, I believe it was me who predicted that if "Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq" continued to indiscriminately attack Iraqi civilians the population would turn against them. You at that time joined the chorus of "usual suspects" on this Forum bleating about "Civil War", and about how the only way out was to either appease the terrorists or capitulate completely, withdraw and leave the Interim Iraqi Government to it's fate.

Point 4:
"And as for the 16 month time frame--now have you noticed who has embraced this? Not just Obama--but Maliki."

Now Obama says irrespective of conditions on the ground he will complete withdrawal of all US troops in 16 months. Obama also says he wants to maintain a US military presence in Iraq, which would be quite difficult because Obama says that he guarantees that the US will build no military bases in Iraq - Obama seems to say rather a lot of very contradictory things Ron Davies, maybe that is why he appeals to you.

Now what does Maliki actually say Ron? His own words Ron, not those that other people told you he said, not those as reported by others. Of course Iraqi's want to see the departure of MNF Troops, that is only natural, it would signal the fact that life was back to normal. What I haven't heard or read Ron is Maliki stating, or demanding, that he wants US/MNF troops out of Iraq in accordance with any set timetable.

Point 5:
"Too bad that doesn't fit with your theory about the disaster such a timeframe would be."

I'll stick with my prediction Ron, which was, that if the US Armed Forces leave Iraq in any manner that "Al-Qaeda", the insurgents or militias can claim "victory" then it will prove to be a disaster for the USA and Iraq in particular, and for the region and the world in general. You might not have thought things out, because that is not a thing that you do well, besides nobody has told you what to think about it.