The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #113936   Message #2428408
Posted By: Little Hawk
02-Sep-08 - 03:01 AM
Thread Name: BS: Britain and Germany rule the waves !
Subject: RE: BS: Britain and Germany rule the waves !
I agree with you 100% on all of that. It would have been a blessing for Germany if the July plot had succeeded and Hitler had been killed or at least removed from power.

It would have been an even greater blessing if he'd been removed from power by other Germans a good deal sooner than July '44.

*****

I think, though, that the rather modern concept of demanding "unconditional surrender" of people in war is a pointless and a very poor notion (one designed to impress one's own people and humiliate other people...because all surrenders in fact involve the setting of various conditions upon which the surrender is negotiated and arranged. Even so-called "unconditional surrender" does...and the setting of those conditions involves discussions and negotiations between the top military people on both sides, representing their governments.

Example: U.S. Grant always demanded unconditional surrender during the US Civil War, and he became famous for it. Well, it sounded mighty impressive, but it always involved discussions between General Grant and his Confederate counterparts, and as a result of those discussions various conditions were then agreed upon. It did NOT end up being truly unconditional.

Therefore, it's a misnomer. There are in truth no unconditional surrenders in any organized war, merely conquerors who pretend that there are in order to puff out their chests, make their own people go into a frenzy of national pride, and humiliate the other side utterly, and act like King Shit for a day. I am not well impressed by the moral fiber of anyone who demands unconditional surrender of his worthy opponents at the conclusion of a battle or a campaign. It's the mark of the barbarian as far as I'm concerned. It's a very sad precedent to bring to warfare.

It's the kind of thing Hitler would have richly enjoyed doing himself, I imagine, just to demonstrate the old "Master Race" ethic in as arrogant a way as possible and shove his boot in the face of the fallen.

I despise this business of defeating an army or a nation and demanding "unconditional surrender" of them. It stinks.