The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #114513   Message #2445277
Posted By: Ernest
19-Sep-08 - 02:18 PM
Thread Name: blame CAPITALISM & jetison it!!
Subject: RE: blame CAPITALISM & jetison it!!
Big Mick:

according to Karl Marx socialism is a transitional stage between capitalism and communism. So what you call aberrations is the manifest destiny of socialism.

Socialism already includes the concept of means of production not being owned individually but by the collective of people. This as well is not just a cliche but a fundamental position of socialism.

As I wrote before that concept can`t go together with the ideas of free speech, free trade unions etc. Socialism is not equated with totaliarism because people are too lazy to think but because socialism always went together with it (as Art and others here have stated before).
Its not lazyness but experience.

Your message still leaves me a bit puzzled on what your understanding of socialism is. That is because you didn`t say anything about the fundamental concept of collectively owned means of production etc. and ist consequences.

Social security etc.is not exclusively related with socialism. It is rooted in the christian concept of charity, in the age of enlightments concept of equality etc. And the capitalist system is able to provide more money for social security systems than socialism ever was.


Regards
Ernest