I am not sure if I can shed any light on the debate, but it's an interesting one. Over the years, I have recorded a great number of traditional singers both in the UK and the US, so can speak with some insider knowledge. When I record a singer, a standard question is always 'Where did you learn that song?'.

Can I also say that it's a great pleasure to know that members of the travelling community are contributing to this debate, knowing the strong cultural and oral heritage they possess.

Traditional or source singers are human beings like us. They are not born with a repertoire in their heads. They hear songs, they like songs, they learn and sing songs. They forget bits and embellish bits. They get their songs from oral tradition, books, recordings, letters, and now by Internet, email, fax and answerphone. But hey, who doesn't?

However, I suspect the kernel of Brian's original posting is to ask, when we hear a performance from a singer, whether the words have been passed on through 'pure' oral tradition or consciously learnt from some other later source. My experience has been that many singers that we call traditional have learnt some of their repertoire from sources other that oral tradition. Mention has been made of Gordon Hall, whom I recorded on one occasion, and it is well known that he supplemented his versions from his collection of broadsides. His version of Lord Becket (17 and a half minutes, 3 fags and a double whisky) got longer every time you heard it. He also sang me great versions of Henry Martin and the Jolly Butchers, exactly as collected from Henry Burstow 90 years previously, so presumably learnt by him from a printed source.

The lovely Devon singer Charlie Hill often supplemented his fragmentary versions by getting the words from friends and other sources. For example, he knew a few verses of 'The Capable Wife' so I gave him a complete set and next time I saw him he was singing it all the way through. Isn't that what we all do? When I learnt the music hall song from 'Every Morning' from Charlie, I deliberately changed a line to make it say 'Gloucester market', to turn it into an old Gloucestershire song!

The traditional singer Archer Goode in Gloucestershire used books to supplement many of his songs.

Ray Driscoll learnt some songs from me but when he sang them they came out differently. The Gloucestershire Poacher got somehow relocated to Ireland!

The only issue is when a singer pretends or leads one to believe that what they are singing is straight from oral tradition. I'm not hinting at direct deception, but an unspoken assumption on the part of the performer. I don't think there have been many singers that do this with malice aforethought, but I have known singers to be very coy about their sources, to preserve the aura. It sounds better to say 'I have known this songs for years and can't remember where I got it' than to say 'I learnt this from a Martin Carthy CD.'

Anyway, enough rambling on. This is a good thread and a question worth asking.


Tradsinger