The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #115854   Message #2488607
Posted By: Big Mick
08-Nov-08 - 03:49 PM
Thread Name: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
Subject: RE: BS: Californianas Opposing 'Prop 8' Ban
This whole thing is a matter of semantics and definition. I get tired of splitting hairs on it, I am tired of the religious fundies trying to control others, and I am tired of the LGBT fundies trying to force their will on religious communities. Before you start jumping, let me take those one by one.

Semantics/definition - All marriages that are legally recognized are civil unions, whether they are performed in a church or on the courthouse steps, by a member of the clergy or by a Justice of the Peace. The civil union confers upon the parties rights of survivorship, transference of estate, responsibilities for debt, sharing in gained/earned wealth, etc. The marriage rite, as performed by various churches, simply is that religious organization putting it's stamp of approval on the union. This is an important distinction.

Religious/LGBT fundamentalists - Religious fundamentalists are trying to keep their religious beliefs codified under law. Since they don't believe in the marriage of two folks of the same sex, and since it is not legal, they are trying to keep it that way. It is my opinion that they should live their lives as they choose and according to whatever code they choose, but they shouldn't have the right to force others to accept that "religious" code. They are not making the distinction between the civil, which confers rights as in any other union, and religious. I have never been able to understand how my marriage, and the love and respect it is founded on, is threatened by other folks living as they choose.

LGBT fundies are just as bad. They simply will not be satisfied until everyone accepts their belief that they have a right to be "married". Same thing applies. It depends on your definition of "marriage". If you are saying the Roman Catholic Church must accept your marriage as in keeping with their faith, that is none of your business. You have no right to enforce on the church that which flies in the face of the dogma of the church. If, on the other hand, your definition of "marriage" is that you have all the same legal rights and recognition by the State, I am with you all the way. But you may not tell a Priest that he cannot hold views, based on his religious beliefs, that it is wrong. And in the civic arena, he may not discriminate. But he has every right to not recognize the marriage within his church. The concern is that someone would then bring suit to force a church to conduct a ceremony against their will.

I believe that clarity in the law, and a full granting of the same protections that any other couple has in their "civil union/marriage" is entirely possible and should happen.

All the best,

Mick