The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #116281   Message #2519374
Posted By: Teribus
18-Dec-08 - 07:30 PM
Thread Name: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
Point 1:
"That's an interesting point, that piracy is not a "crime" but an "act of war." But Somalia is a "failed state" and most observers agree that the current "government" is flying apart. Can there be "war" without a "state?" Or in your opinion, does it even matter."

Of course there can Charley, you are fighting a war now, the war on terror, where there is no state. It is one of the most important wars that western civilisation has ever fought, get your head round it and get behind it, because there is no negotiation with your foe, he wants you and your way of life destroyed completely.

Point 2:
"Firing on sight and destroying" may be the most effective deterrent for future piracy, but it also runs the risk of recruiting more volunteers for the world wide battle against the non-Moslem world, recruiting volunteers who were only interested in economic crimes."

As has been seen in Iraq where the likes of the Jihadists and Al-Qaeda have been tempted into "open" combat - they die, and they die in vast numbers. No risk, you hammer them from their ports, you hammer every bloody thing that sets out from the coasts of Somalia and Yemen, you imprint on their minds that it is they who must signal first to the world at large that they set sail with peaceful intent. Establish shipping lanes, then IF any daft twats in small boats armed to teeth with RPG7's and AK47's wander into those shipping lanes they will die. Death Charley is not a great a recruiting Sergeant, as Al-Qaeda has found in Iraq.

"Furthermore military commanders in the Gulf of Aden are cautious about pursuing pirates to their home ports and destroying their infrastructure and homes, despite the new UN resolution. The collateral damage that would likely occur would also embitter people who have little else to lose."

Then replace the military commanders for ones who will for every attempt at piracy will close the coast and subject "pirate" ports to 12 hours of naval bombardment, imprint on the minds of those living there that the pirates that you seem to love and romaticize about are a bloody liability, and I mean literally a "bloody" liability.

"You may be "totally disinterested in whatever excuses are invented" but that is precisely the kind of attitude that recruits volunteers for groups such as Al Qada."

Em, No it doesn't Charley, the fact that those who swell the "pirate" ranks think that they may get rich from their enterprise recruits volunteers. If your so-loved "pirates" and the people in the communities that support them start dying in droves because of the activities of "pirates" them the learning curve becomes quite short and "piracy" as an occupation gets abandoned pdq on account of the health risks involved.

"I welcome the Chinese Navy in the Gulf of Aden and hope they have learned some lessons in when and how to use force to protect international commerce."

I said that I would be interested to see what the Chinese Naval forces are going to do. My bet, it will be like a repeat of the Russian Fleet sailing to take on the Japanese in 1905. They have no distant force projection experience, their RAS skills if anything like the old Soviet Navy will be laughable, their effectiveness minimal.

Pirates, Charley Noble, you engage on sight, you do everything in your power to sink them on sight, they have no human rights, they left those behind ashore the minute they set sail to plunder and rob, they, through choice, put themselves outwith the law. You do not take prisoners, you do not capture people for trials, you kill them there and then. Lessons learned are then simple and very, very clear to understand from everybodies point of view.