I agree that the confusion is unhelpful, but this discussion has been about the wider genre of music, and the presentation thereof, which is now commonly (and therefore reasonably) lumped under the term folk. We are not talking about purely traditional material presented only in an informal, non-commercial manner, and you do know that, so it's unreasonable to apply those standards to the discussion and pretend that we are trying to usurp or undermine those values. We are not. And I for one will defend those values just as strongly when necessary - and I will make it clear what I'm talking about when I do so. Tom