but first you need to define "bad".

No we don't! Bad is bad. It doesn't need any further definition. I have already said I don't mean mediocre and I am not talking about personal tastes. When someone cannot keep a song in key or time; when they do not know the words; when they cannot play the instrument they have brought and finaly and most importantly DO SO ON A REGULAR BASIS WITH NO SIGN OF IMPROVEMENT. Then they are bad. Why do we need to keep dredging this up?

DeG