I don't think anyone minds that there are RUS groups that were set up that way and enjoy themselves undoubtedly. Why would we? More power to them. It is the problem of it taking over long-established groups and it does drive out many of the best as defined by me which others would define differently no doubt...singers..to where? Where do they go? Tell me and I would like to join them. But it is no longer public information where they go. They either are not assembling as they used to in the not so distant past, or they are doing it by invitation only. That does not help anyone, especially newcomers. So I urge people who have active folk song societies to set up two groups..they can drift back and forth and see which they prefer, go to both, whatever.

If the sound of the music itself is more important, they will perhaps go to the sansbook session (and by that I mean, and of course we keep having to say everything over and over here because it gets misconstrued when spelled out very plainly to me at least..they can use the book for themselves, or notes or whatever..just not tell people what page it is on and pass them out and wait for others to find the page..)

If the sound of the music is secondary to the more social aspects, of the guarantee of getting a turn every time, of enjoying the process of group support well, then they can go to that one. They can also go to the other one and see how it compares. Vise versa. They don't have to take an oath to one way or another... If they have time they can go to both.

I think camps especially should be accomodating to both groups and it is easy as pie. What I do not especially like at camps is sneaking away. I would rather, and have started to do this, just say I am going over here with this in mind. Join me if you care to.

I will say there are things I just do not get. One is the taking turns over and over and over until the evening is done. I guess others like it...But in a big group...my musical ADD can't handle it...

Another thing that has not been brought up is that something develops over decades of people singing together. There is a group voice that happens. It is often quite magnificent. We know who the leaders are and who the chorus people are. I personally am a chorus person, except in the smaller groups. We also can tell when a constellation of particularly great singers appears on a given night and I think unconsciously sacrifice our "turns" so that something musically outstanding will happen. This can not happen with the very rigid turn system. It just can't. mg

mg