ake, again you have no alternative for Israel. You allow that they are not 'trying' to kill the innocent, which is more than ifor is allowing. In fact, ifor is making the same case I am, that there is no present Hamas position for negotiation. GUEST,ifor might well be to the right of Hamas, and is certainly not to the left of Hamas.

GUEST,ifor is not seeking a return to 1967 border. GUEST,ifor is seeking a return to pre 1948 borders, in other words, GUEST,ifor is seeking the elimination of the nation of Israel. GUEST,ifor isnot prepared to make ANY accomodations whatsoever. That is not a negotiating position. It is a polemic which has not changed all the time GUEST,ifor has posted.

By the logic of GUEST,ifor, there is no negotiating to be had. For GUEST,ifor there is no argument. It is victory or death, or more properly, victory for those who are called Palestinians and death for Israel. ake, your argument assumes or presumes accomodation. You and GUEST,ifor are not arguing the same thing, and there cannot be a counter-argument that will match you and GUEST,ifor at the same time.

Let us not forget that accomodations for peace have been made. Israel occupied the Sinai Peninsula from 1967 until 1973 and then made a full withdrawel as the arranged outcome of peace negotiations. Despite the fact that Israel still holds the Golan heights, and Syria wants them back, there has been no fighting because Syria is launching no attacks on Israeli territory nor civilians. The same is true of the borders with the Jordanians. The Jordanians don't attack, don't allow their many Palestinians to attack, so there is no warfare. Only across Lebanese and Gazan borders has this occurred due to provocations and attacks.

Israel attempted numerous times to arrive at a peace settlement with its neighbors who were states and with the Palestinians, starting right after the 1967 war. Most recently a prolonged effort was made with Yasir Arafat as the leader of both the Gazans and the West Bank, the Prime Minister of Israel, and President Clinton. These negotiations did not bear fruit primarilly because of Arafat. As has been said, "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

GUEST,ifor has had everything to polemicize about, but nothing to offer, and makes a case for continued war with every post.

If you don't want peace, you won't get peace.