Bugsy, there's everything wrong with religion, but that doesn't mean I'm defending the denominations. And if Mbo wants to argue that the Pope is a good guy, I think that would need a whole new thread. We could have a look at Pacelli too (Pius Xll), and the little matter of the concordat he signed up to with Hitler. But let's get back to the music threads for a while before we go down that road.