The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #52464   Message #2580763
Posted By: GUEST,Gibb
03-Mar-09 - 10:39 PM
Thread Name: Origin: Jim Along Josey / Jim Along Josie
Subject: RE: Origin: Jim Along Josey / Jim Along Josie
Hi Azizi,

You wrote:

"But this thought made me wonder about the name "Josey" as a personal name for a man as found in that old dance song. In particular, I thought of how a non-Spanish speaking person might pronouce tghe name "Jose" as "Joe-see". Given that some crews came from the Caribbean, has the Spanish language influence on chantey songs-and on other African American/Black Caribbean dance songs been identified?"

The thing about chanteys if that, more often than not, their lyrics have nothing to do with the sea! In this case, I see no reason to search for a sea origin of "Josie" since we already have the (hypothesized) pre-chantey origin: "Jim Along Josey." Trying not to exaggerate too much, it seems like half the chanteys were made this way, taking stock, catchy, rhythmic phrases from pop tunes of the day, play songs, older work songs, folk rhymes, and jusr adapting them. To respond to your question though, I don't know of any significant influence of Spanish language on chanteys. As far as a Spanish influence on Black Caribbean dance songs, that is a pretty huge topic, but I think the answer is yes...with qualification. One would have to say where they are drawing lines at "Spanish." Much of the Caribbean dance music shares a common rhythmic sensibility. Stuff you might associate as "Cuban" (and therefore Spanish?) is shared with Jamaican music, for example. The burning question is, why are they similar? Is it because they share a common sensibility back from African music, or is it more recent cross-pollination? Anyways...

Back on topic...kinda....if Jim Along Josie and Haul Away Joe are relatives, that adds some pretty strong irony to our present conundrum. In this light, the use of "Haul Away Joe" on the slave ship in "Roots" is pretty absurd. And due to the Clancy Brothers' schtick, people strongly associate the chantey with the Irish (that's not to say chanteys can't have multiple associations/resonances, and Irish sailors did sing it) -- when I was searching for a thread for "Haul Away Joe," I came across one post where the person said he couldn't stand to hear that chantey sung with an American accent!

Gibb