I hope that this isn't considered to be too off-topic:

I'm interested in finding possible sources for children's playground rhymes. That being the case, I'm alert to verses in old songs that are the same as or similar to verses given for those rhymes. For instance, this verse for the shanty "Lucy Long" that was included in doc.tom's 04 Apr 09 - 05:12 AM post:

"Miss Lucy had a baby
She dressed it all in green"

seems very similar to the title and this verse from the widely known playground rhyme "Miss Lucy Had A Baby"

Miss Lucy had a baby
His name was Tiny Tim
She put him in the bathtub
To see if he could swim

-snip-

Is there a connection between these verses or is this just a coincidence?

**

There's a Mudcat thread on Bang Bang Rosie on which a number of members and guests have posted examples of "Miss Lucy Had A Baby" (and a related rhyme "Miss Susie [or Lucie or some other female] Had A Steamboat"}. See this excerpt from one post on that thread:

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bang Bang Rosie
From: JohnInKansas - PM
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:07 PM

Guy Logsden records about a dozen verses, in The Whorehouse Bells Were Ringing: and other songs cowboys sing, for "My Lulu Gal." Alternate titles noted include "Lula," "My Lulu," "Bang Away, My Lulu," Bang, Bang Lulu," "She Is a Lulu," "and many more."

Collection notes indicate the first printed reference to "Lulu" in cowboy song is from 1902, when Owen Wister has the hero in The Virginian sing one verse. The verse used is commonly known, but Wister stated "that the other 78 verses were unprintable...

-snip-

I believe that there's a connection between the minstrel song "Lucy Long" and these "Bang Bang Lulu" verses. Now I'm wondering if there is also a connection between the shanty "Lucy Long" and those "Bang Bang Lulu" verses.

Also, for what it's worth, there's this mention of "Lucy Long" in the 19th century "plantation" dance song "Old Joe Clark":

"Fare thee well, Old Joe Clark
Fare thee well (I sing) (I say) (I'm gone)
He'd foller me ten thousand miles
(To hear my banjo ring) (To hear my fiddle play) (Goodby Lucy Long)"

@displaysong.cfm?SongID=4411

Of course, it's more likely that the name "Lucy Long" was included in that song because of the "popular" ministrel song and not because of the shanty...then again from where did the composers of the "Lucy Long" minstrel song get that name?

This last question was rhetorical, but the other questions weren't.

Thanks in advance for any responses to these questions.