It is, of course, clearly my mistake yet again to credit Mudpersons with sufficient intelligence to actually read what has been said, but hey, I'll give it one last go.

The Royal Oak is really quite a noisy place in a participatory sort of way and not nearly as precious as many a cliquey "it's ours", clubbier-than-thou hangout I could but won't mention. I rarely go because of the need to leave before the end. It's also not a venue for children or for fitting in eating. Nor indeed for the "prolier-than-thou" inverted f*lk snob who shushes the slightest utterance.

As long as I can get back to a London terminus from any such godforsaken venue by 0100 or so, the Polish shops by my station stay open till after the last tube goes through at 01.30. This solves the eating problem but not the annoyance of missing the final third of the set list in the guest's second half. I look forward confidently to tut-tutting and whingeing about my running around London in the middle of the night instead of playing happy families, but I won't be reading them.

Other venues manage to provide a lot more possibilities and this, fortunately, is a growing trend. From Vic's description, I don't think his part-timers were actually complaining that the facilities didn't suit them but I imagine they'd be better pleased if they could do all they wanted in situ, as it were. To cite the old Spitz yet again, a set-up with a separate restaurant or like the Jazz Café with eating space on a balcony overlooking the stage would fit the bill,

And if people want to spend more hours away from their progeny than the neighbours can tolerate, the simple answer is to pay someone else. Or sell them or something. Not that I think it's a suitable subject for discussion here.