Once again, GfS, you dodge answering my question by tossing in a diversion.

Well, that's fine. I will be back to that later. And I expect an answer from you to my question. The subject is still very much up front, and I'm not going to let you off the hook! So you'd better think about it.

As far as Ake is concerned, I shouldn't dignify his ridiculous rant by even answering it, but to allay all doubts, yes, Ake, I take marriage very seriously. Barbara and I have been married for 31, going on 32 years. We have a warm, loving relationship that grows stronger day by day. And in case you are unaware of this, there is more—much more—to marriage than sex. Barbara and I share many interests: writing, music, friends, social activism, and much more. We are partners in more ways than—apparently—you are able to imagine.

We number among our friends a wide variety of people, including two gay men who live together and who often join us for holiday celebrations. One of them is a member of our writers' group, and he is a fine writer. They both work, are active in various social causes (in addition to gay activism), and, on all counts, they are solid members of the community. And they are not the only same sex partners we are acquainted with who are also solid citizens.

Neither Barbara nor I would presume to tell others who they should love or form attachments with. Just as Barbara and I expect others to keep their noses out of trying to interfere with our relationship.

Do I accept or approve of the various theoretical relationships you present, Ake?

"…man/woman…man/man…woman/woman…" plus various combinations and permutations thereof, along with horses and miscellaneous inanimate objects.

How can anyone take that kind of thing seriously, Ake? I might point out for your enlightenment and edification that many cultures on this planet find various combinations, such as polygamy, polyandry, and group marriage perfectly acceptable. So who am I—and who are you—to call them "deviant" or "abnormal?" To some of them, you could very well be the "pervert." Think about it!

And as to the matter of your apparent attraction to inanimate objects, let me suggest that attempting to have a love affair with your shop-vac could lead not only to serious injury, but considerable embarrassment when the emergency room staff winds up rolling on the floor with laughter! And no, Ake, I don't speak from experience.

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Now, GfS. . . .

Barbara and I married when she was forty and I was forty six, and we've been married for 31 years. You do the math. We've orbited the sun quite a few times, so we do speak from a fair amount of life experience. For various reasons, we decided not to have children. So right off the bat, there goes one of the reasons people give for marriage—procreation. I think anyone would be hard-pressed to justify considering Barbara and me as "deviants" on that account. We certainly have a lot of company.

Barbara was married before, briefly when she was in her early twenties, but it didn't work out. No children. I, on the other hand had not been married before, but I do have a son. From a relationship that took place in the 1960s. Due to various circumstances, marriage with my son's mother was impossible.

Your question is academic, GfS, because my son is now in his early forties and he currently lives in eastern Canada, although we see each other several times a year when he and his partner, a lovely, highly intelligent, and charming woman, come to visit for a week or two, often on their way to some other part of the world. They run a highly successful consulting business, often under contract to the Canadian government. And yes, they're not just business partners. They own a house together in Ottawa.

But suppose his partner were a man. I could not think any the less of him or love him any less. Among other things, I know that his gender orientation was fixed early on, (perhaps, as many scientists now believe, in utero) and whatever course he took, it was not a matter of his choice, any more than his eye color, or the fact that it is becoming obvious that he has inherited my hairline, was a matter of his choice—whether you believe that or not.

So—what does this have to do with my "permissive attitude?" Or what "lifestyle" I might want my child to pursue? He is his own man. And he will be and do what he is and must.

But GfS, I think you had better ponder this:

You vociferously deny being a bigot or a homophobe, and yet how many words have you written and how many posts have you made to this and other threads on the same subject? How much time, effort, and emotion have you felt compelled to invest in this matter? Why do you care so much?

And frankly, it really surprised me that you would ask me if I have children and how I would feel if a child of mine "decided" to become homosexual. Why surprised? Because of the blatant admission that this question makes. It is a minor variation of a question one used to hear a lot a few decades back, and it is the unmistakable hallmark of the bigot:

"Would you want your daughter to marry one?"

Don Firth