I sympathize with what Joe is trying to say, but it would be hypocritical of me to express complete agreement/approval. I am, after all, an ex-Catholic who many years ago quite deliberately rejected and left the church.

I had no experience with actual abuse, but I certainly had a very strong sense that one of the most basic principles of the institution was a wrongheaded and sick attitude about human sexuality. mg quite eloquently expressed feelings like mine just a few posts above (27 May 09 - 05:19 PM); I don't feel the need to add anything more.

Yeah, sure, apologists for the Church will object and say that this (reasonable and idealistic) teaching or that is "really" what the church is all about ~ but the unspoken premise at the very bottom of how the institution clings to its membership is that you need to fear eternal punishment for your very nature, and only The Church can save you.