"...proving that there is no ability but mechanism."

but... MY point was that no one I know, and no one in this thread that I can remember, is making such a assertion. Are we discussing these ideas among ourselves, or do I have to answer for 'someone who takes the most extreme view' about them?

*I* am not asserting that level of claim, but merely asking for restraint in degree & nomenclature from those who assert the opposite.

I am not playing Hitchens to your Pope Benedict, but trying to show where & why care needs to be taken.

(if my metaphor is weak, blame the lateness of the hour and Obama being on ABC discussing health care... *grin*)