Emma... as I'm sure you know, my remarks regarding "winning" a discussion such as this were tongue in cheek.

Personally, I am more interested in encouraging debate and objective thought than any meaningless victory.
Many here are content with comfortable knee jerk responses to complex issues, this is most unhealthy and a sure sign that "liberalism"(the cult) is flourishing.

Frogprince...Although we rarely agree, I've always had you figured as an intelligent and genuinely liberal person(something in the mould of Emma) and your question deserves an answer. I am more in the business of posing questions than providing answers, but I'll try to get back to you.

Due to work commitments, I have very little time to write on this forum...Ake