The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #123317   Message #2714685
Posted By: Gibb Sahib
02-Sep-09 - 12:57 PM
Thread Name: Negro Folk Rhymes (Thomas W. Talley)
Subject: RE: Negro Folk Rhymes (Thomas W. Talley)
Azizi and others,

I've no time to analyze all this material myself, but it raises a recurring, burning question for me:

To what extent did minstrel shows and songs borrow from authentic African-American forms...and...how should we interpret the material in books like Talley's given the legacy of popular minstrel music...as not only a strong influence on all American popular music, but also as a body of material that was coded as "Negro" (i.e. regardless of who may have created it)? That is, to what extent are the lyrics in Talley "authentic" African-American music if they are based in minstrel songs? It seems one either has to accept that: 1) many lyrics in minstrel songs were based on authentic African-American songs, or 2) a chunk of what came to be embraced as "our music" by African-Americans by the end of the 19th century originated in minstrel songs, perhaps penned by non-Blacks.

If we say that such and such song in Talley derives from a minstrel song, it may appear to remove the agency from African-Americans or even suggest that the item is not "authentic folklore." However, to make that observation does not necessarily imply that, since earlier minstrel songs may have derived from African-Americans' rhymes (i.e. they've come full-circle). We may even be forced that admit that, with regards to a certain chunk of the material, there is really nothing "Negro" or not-Negro about it --- that is, it doesn't necessarily pertain to any long traditions of African-Americans, but rather, it is material that was merely ascribed to that community at the time of writing for some reason.

I realize this question is WAY too big to be dealt with here, but the reason why I raise it is because I think such broad studies of the material, piece by piece, as would be facilitated by this kind of list, may be the only way to give modest answers to the question.