999, you need to remember that here, at that time, no court judge would have acted against the Church. There are major differences between the Ireland of those years and America; also between Irish Catholicism and American Catholicism, largely because of the differences in those societies. I wish people would take more account of that fact.

The populace here did not in practice have the same basic citizens' rights, whatever it did or didn't say in the law books. We were until very recently a MONO-culture, something the US has never been. A large percentage of the total population lived in rural isolation, in a rigidly enclosed society where things were simply not talked about, even when "everyone knew". I think you may not appreciate the strength of this invisible governing: you could pretty much expect censure from your neighbours if you complained to them. You cannot imagine this sort of fear-ruled conformity unless you've lived it or at least seen it first hand. In any case the political government was not separated from the Church in the ways that it should have been, so they neither protected nor helped the victims.

Yes, Sanity, of course they were bad apples. But the problem is that it was not simply "a few". They proliferated because such crimes were too easy to get away with, with no outside authority to answer to.

And, of course, what constitutes child molesting? It's a phrase that has become devalued because it can mean anything now. And I hate that people throw it around like a Frisbee, aiming it at innocent Catholics like Joe for simply daring to raise perfectly fair questions, in a spirit of genuinely wanting to understand. The crimes being spoken of here - and recalled by survivors - are the physical perpetration of sexual acts on those younger and weaker. People who have not done, or facilitated, this are not child molesters. You can read the stories of the survivors. That is, those who haven't committed suicide in despair, which many have. The statistics are appalling.

There are of course a huge number of honest and dedicated priests (the nuns are pretty much gone, ditto the Christian Brothers) and for their suffering because of this sordid saga, my heart aches. But IT HAPPENED. And for too long was swept under the carpet or given only cosmetic attention. Because not everyone was guilty doesn't mean that it was only a few. There was too much power, held by too many, for too long, for it to be only a few. We're never really going to know the true numbers.

No, Sanity, we didn't "forget the churches stance on abortions, homosexuality, divorce, and broken families". They have very clear rulings on these things. But where is all this decisive clarity when it concerns one of their own, a rapist among their ranks? All they did for punishment was move him to another area, so he could do it again.