Thanks, Tootler, for describing the problem so succinctly!

perhaps most people who go to folk clubs are there to enjoy an evening out and a few beers with friends who share a common interest and they go because they enjoy taking part; singing a couple of songs and listening to others sing, hearing some new songs and some familiar one and in between having a natter and generally socialising.

We are not looking for professional standards from everyone, though we get it from some, we don't mind if someone fluffs their words - everybody does at some time, and some feel more confident if they have a crib sheet in front of them, well that's fine
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If you don't like that, well it's simple. Stay away, but stop knocking those of us who do.

I like that fine - as I've said repeatedly, it makes for a good night out. But it's a really lousy way to hear traditional songs sung well and with passion. Until I got drawn into the Beech singaround, I had no idea that there was anywhere you could go to hear traditional songs sung well and with passion - not only that, but I had no idea that I would enjoy hearing t. s. sung w. and w. p. as much as I do (much, much more than I enjoy a standard come-all-ye singers' night).

Let me repeat: I didn't know how much I would enjoy singing and hearing traditional songs. I didn't know there was anywhere I could go to sing and hear traditional songs. And this was after five years of being a regular performer at a Folk Club (and visiting several others). Anything wrong with this picture, you reckon?