Now it gets even more interesting.

Kat - I don't think Alice was making a blanket statement. She was relating what happened to make her question her own deeply held beliefs. I read her post to be specific to the cult's use of astrology not as a general statement about astrologists.

After all we all have friends who are firmly entrenched in the other camp and not all of them rape babies! At least none of my friends do and I have some friends who are very deeply into mysticism and pseudoscience.

And then, Kat, you got into your own blanket statement about scientists. "Hard scientists will never believe anything we try to prove, as they are predisposed to not be open-minded." As has been mentioned in earlier posts, a good scientist would love to have your claims proved. But the scientific process requires that the results of an experiment be repeatable under strict scientifc conditions and that is where the proofs fail.

That is why the Skeptical Enquirer works so hard at what it does. Its mandate isn't to disprove the supernatural and psychic phenomena. They want to prove all of it. Nobody has been able to so far.

I would love to believe in UFO's and telepathy and telekinesis and all that stuff. I only ask that the proof stand up to strict scientific (laboratory) conditions.