The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #126478   Message #2814481
Posted By: CapriUni
17-Jan-10 - 05:19 PM
Thread Name: BS: The Quakers
Subject: RE: BS: The Quakers
CarolC --

Yes: "You" is the formal (and plural) form of the second person pronoun. Think of the "Royal 'We'" -- the monarch counted as more than one commoner, and spoke of him/herself that way, and expected you (thee) to do the same.

Friends said "Pish!" to that, since they believed everyone was singular and equal, and all part of the same family of man, so referred to everyone by the familiar term.

To bring music into this discussion, think of Robert Burns' "A man's a man for a' that" -- very Friendly sentiment.

It's this same reason that Quakers will not remove their hats when they come indoors (unless they're feeling too warm, or their head itches), as that's a sign of deference to their host's supposed higher social status.

My grandfather was a birthright Friend, and by his time, the use of "thee" and "thou" had already dropped out of use. However, Quakers in his community never referred to anyone as "Mister," "Miss," or "Mrs." Surname, as all these titles are versions of "master" and "mistress," and no human should be thought of as a master or mistress of another. Instead, when they are being formal, or writing a letter with a formal salutation, they'll refer to someone by their full name.

My grandmother confided in my mother (I think; it was my mother who passed the story on to me) that she was surprised and delighted to be introduced to my grandfather's parents as "Josephine Andrews" instead of "Miss Andrews" -- as a complete person in her own right, and not just her father's daughter.

Once, I was trying to register for something online -- it may have something official, like an absentee voting form, or something similar, I was not allowed to continue to the next page until I'd picked a formal title for myself -- Mr. Mrs. Ms. or Miss (Dr. and Rev. were in there, too. But I didn't want to lie). There was no "no title" option.

I think I was seeing red for the rest of the day. It was so ridiculous, especially since none of those titles add any relevent information to my file -- all they do is peg me in some gender or status catagory, and take up space in the database.