SOLDIER BOY........As has been previously mentioned this is one of the oldest and sometimes most contentious subject on the forum. Let me show you what I mean. THIS THREAD is 12 years old and you'll see some familiar names. At the top of that thread is a list of others pertaining to RUS (Rise Up Singing) in particular and "book singing" in general. Read throughsome of them and you'll find the same things are being said on every one!

Buut one voice on the subject that was probably the best and most vocal is now gone from us. So let me repost here the words of our friend and 'Catter, Barry Finn:

There was a time when people came to sing, sometimes because they couldn't read & othertimes because they just enjoyed it, then others came along to listen & join in & add to the the merryment or just to listen because it's a pleasure, & hell, without the new blood what's the use of keeping such a loving thing alive if it's so sad to see it dying. My ideal singing party starts at daybreak, I'd go for roasting a pig, by noon every one's ready to eat, drink & sing, nobody misses out on singing & beginners or the shy always have the floor & the rest are in there for the coaxing & the crack, just no RUS bibles around. Usually most keep going on till evening when the heat gets turned on & that works out nicely for those that don't have a lot of songs to draw from, this is when some of the odd gems get thrown around (& everyone's joining in) along with the diamond in the rough that's hardly been heard but when you hear it you can't forget where it came from. Still no books but everybodys singing & the beginners want more & those that have been around longer are looking to swap & give more. My ideal festival is not the stages but the campsites where you can find all kinds of people singing all kinds of songs and telling all kinds of stories. I'll leave you with that image, if you want to learn a song or a tune don't try & learn it at a session or party, learn it at home, from a book if need be then leave the book there & take the music to the party. Barry, who loves it when it's wild.

And if you thought that made sense, read the following rant from Barry:

You don't teach bad singers to get better by having them sing with their peers (you have a sucky sing, it'll stay that way or get worst), you put them in with a good group, you won't get an infusion of new, fresh or young blood by exposing them to a medicore sing, you won't get anyone one to liven up the dead, the dead will bring the rest down to the lowest common denominator. If you have a great sing going throw out any bastard that wants to bring in a book, if they multiply they'll kill it! You can't kill a good sing when you've got good & strong core of singers leading it. When I lived in San Francisco 30 odd yrs ago they had some of the best singing parties I ever went to (God I miss those days), there were new people, young & old, great singers & bad singers, they all sang a varity of genres, there was a great flow of songs but when they crowded a room the roof lifted & not a piece of paper could be seen. The front room was packed, the side room was packed, the kitchen was jammed. The side room started off with newbies & beginners, as the night wore on the kitchen would start getting louder & the volume & harmony would rise above the rest. The other rooms would start to leave for the kitchen, the strong singers held court & the rest supported them. Eventually the weaker singers grew to become part of the strong core & got to lead on their own. It was magic, a few yrs later the good/strong singers left to form their own Way, the books had taken over & a good thing died an awful death. Today that sing still exists & it still sucks (I visited it the last time I was out there & the one attended by the core that left is smaller but it's good but not nearly as great as it once was. See, I also believe that with out those weaker singers, the newbies & them that don't have such a good voice we all lose something of the spirit & lust, we don't sing as well for ourselves as we do when we're singing for others. It's a wonderful thing to watch singers as they grow but they'll never grow in an enviorment where the level of singing is just a step above the gutter, in 5 yurs time they'll find that they've only sunk into the sewer.
You teach the newbies by setting your own good example. If you've got a wonderful singing club they won't jump in with a book & drag it down, they'll wait until they've been encourged by their betters & that happens as they start to join in with the rest, they get pulled along until they're ready to get their feet wet. They learn as they go! You enjoy listening to a good singer who sings their song well & has the crowd joining in or at a whisper, well they didn't learn their craft overnight, someone pulled them along too or they put in an awful lot of time & effort on their own & no one does it better alone!
An old Cape Horner told me that there was harmony on board ships, where they sang while they worked, even though a good number of the singers sucked at singing, he called it natural harmony among so many, they followed & learned their way by being with those that knew better & were around longer. I believe that every singer that thinks/knows they're bad can be better if they're exposed & surrounded by good singers (or have a voice teacher, which is more fun?), the tone deaf can be corrected to hear what works with others provided they get to sing with others that are good, they'll know with the help of the others & they'll come by some of it on their own too. We can all help to make it better but it can go the other way too, as we've seen & heard about in this thread. RUS, sucks when it's brought into a group sing, keep it at home, on the shelf with the rest of your reference books. Do you bring the whole fucking library to each sing you go to?
You need a cheat sheet? The best cheat sheet I ever saw was when I looked at our own treaties1/Theresa. She had in her hand a small index card with just a couple lead words for each verse, to give her a jolt if she needed it. Now there's a woman with a voice & a spirit to match, what a singer, what a passion & spirit but you'd never know she had any thing to back her up "just in case" & I think that was just for her shaky songs which I can't see that she'd have to many of but she's a wonder to behold. There are ways to get past the need for a note book & library. You don't do yourself any favors & you certinally aren't furthering the group singing at all, you're only dumbing it down.

Barry may be gone but thanks to the 'Cat we have his words of wisdom and experience still here.

Spaw