The Mudcat Café TM
Thread #127292   Message #2840451
Posted By: Jim Carroll
15-Feb-10 - 07:11 PM
Thread Name: Do We Think We're Better Than Them?
Subject: RE: Do We Think We're Better Than Them?
"I realize it's probably a waste of time to even ask, but can you provide any documentation for these sweeping generalizations?"
It is indeed a waste of time. Our pontificator has said elsewhere that he does not 'do' research, and he always makes a point of abusing and belittling those who do.
"Anonymity is no indication of collectivity"
Neither is the naming of principle sources.
"I bet you could name a fair few, Jim - just check your source singers."
Do you have any grounds whatever for this arrogant statement? Have you spoken to our source singers, or listened toy our recordings? NO, DESPITE STRENUOUS EFFORTS WE HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO TRACE ONE TRADITIONAL SONG BACK TO ITS COMPOSER - HAVE YOU?
"bricklaying, plasterwork, drystone walling, pottery, coopering, joinery"
Go to any elderly resident in this village and they will name you some of the finest tradesmen living here back as far as two generations. Joe Cooley, the great box player was a plasterer, Willie Clancy was a carpenter, dry-stone walling ran in families; there are still members of those families in the trade. The same applies to blacksmithing and curragh-making. There are even studies and books written on the latter. Yet - guess what - nobody has ever been able to give us the name of the composer of The Wreck of The Leon (any of the 4 separate songs on the subject), De Valera's Election Victory (at least three songs) The Quern Fishing Disaster, The Rineen Ambush (4 songs), Mac and Shanahan (two), The West Clare Railway (4 - maybe five), The Drunken Bear, The Quilty Burning....... all local songs on events which took place during the lifetimes of the singers who gave them to us. We do have information that the latter was started by four young farmers standing on the street corner the day after the day occurred, but we have no idea what form that early composition took.
"The evidence is right there"
Then it should be a doddle to point it out - where is it? Why have we all missed it. Why did Ruth Finnegan (Oral Poetry) or Leonard Trask (The Unwritten Song 2 vols) or Maurice Bowra (Primitive Song) or John Blacking (How Musical is Man)... and all the other researchers bother when all they had to do is lock themselves in a folk club, stare at the ceiling for long enough and the answer would come to them "there is no oral tradition - it's all a figment of our imagination".
You are still making crass, unsubstantiated statements and your responses are still as evasive as they were in the beginning.
Jim Carroll