From Dave, with comment at start from someone else...

She IS doing harm by dressing or behaving 'provocatively' if she doesn't intend to put out: she is committing a gross breach of manners

Sorry - Bad manners = No harm done. Rape = Lots of harm done. No over-simplifycation. Just plain fact. But just in case let us take a more complex example. Sorry if this has happened to anyone and I sincerley hope I not opening old wounds.

Chantelle goes to the disco - Dressed in the previously described manner. She has a few drinks, wiggles her bottom and flashes her boobs at Wayne, who fancies her like mad. He buys her a couple more drinks and then walks her home. She fancies him as well and gives his tonsils a good bashing with her tongue at the street corner before she says goodnight. It is not enough for him and he says he wants sex. She says no but he will not take no for an answer, drags her down an alley and rapes her.

Really easy question here for anyone - but specificaly for Lizzie and MtheGM. No trick questions. No hidden agenda. Who is responsible for the rape?

DeG<<<<<


OK....well first of all I don't understand any woman who'd 'get her boobs out' to anyone, unless she's trying to get that man heavily interested in her. But to do that in a public place is just alient to me...The message she's putting out is brazenly obvious. She then, in your story, chose to go home with him, snogged him like it was the end of the world, obviously getting him even more aroused and then, when he thought she was the kind of girl who'd get her boobs out for anyone, as she had done earlier on, and asked or expected her to go the whole way, she suddenly decided to turn into Miss Innocent and changed her mind. He gets angry, whilst still aroused...and decides to overstep that line.

He is completely at fault for overstepping that line.
She is completely at fault for making him think she was 'gagging for it' in the first place, giving him completely the wrong message.

IF she had wanted to be treated differently, then perhaps she should have done this....

'Chantelle goes to the disco, dressed differently from her pals. Wayne's intrigued...she looks like no other woman he's seen before. He fancies her like mad! She doesn't wiggle her bum at him, nor does she get her boobs out, hell, he's so fed up with slutty women who do that. But this girl, THIS girl is different, refreshing, seems to have self respect. She smiles at him and he smiles back. He decides to be brave and asks if she'd like a drink, and she says "Yes, that'd be lovely, thanks." They start chattering away, find they have a lot in common...sharing some dances.   

At the end of the evening he asks if he can walk her home, and she says 'Thanks, but Dad's picking me up, he's kinda hot about things like that." Wayne makes a note that her Dad cares a great deal about her, so he's NOT to upset him.

So, he asks if she'd like to go for a coffee the next day, and she says "Yes, that'd be great! Thank you!" He helps her on with her coat, escorts her to the door, sees her safely to her Dad's car (and boy, is Dad impressed!) then waves goodbye, feeling that he may just have found, at long, long last, his 'One in a Million' girl.   

Wayne goes home with a smile on his face.
Chantelle goes home with a smile on her face...

And Dad drives home thinking 'He seemed a nice lad!"