Steve wrote:
"There is sufficient expertise on Mudcat and some of the other ballad/trad song forums to formulate our own WORKING definition of 'traditional song'."

Wouldn't THAT be nice? However there remains the problem of who's asking the question. A modern-day folklorist looking for 'traditional songs' would undoubtedly seize on the football chants and playground rhymes often discussed here. A musician (especially one from the 'folk' movement) will be looking for songs that are old and (bearing in mind that musicians are conscious of the issue of authorship) anonymous. However, Child ballads and Sharp-era lyrical songs are rarely if ever passed on in the old way in the present day - and are thus only of historical interest to the modern folklorist - while football chants are unlikely to tickle the fancy of the musician seeking repertoire.

Daryowen wrote:
"I would dispute that it is inter-generational transmission which creates tradition."

This might be true as a matter of principle but, in terms of the old songs, the accounts of the singers themselves tell us over and over again that songs were learned from mothers, fathers, uncles and aunts. Although we tend to look at pub singing sessions like the ones in East Anglia as a possible opportunity for song exchange, the evidence of Bob Copper and others suggests that singing within the home and within families was where the song tradition was at its strongest.

Suibhne wrote:
"we have a vast body of collected material we might think of as English Language Traditional Song which can be discussed as much in terms of its structure, modality & lyrical imagery as its (possible) derivation, distribution and diversification"

This would be one way of drawing up a definition: forget the football songs etc. and keep 'traditional' for that body of old songs that were once passed on orally through generations and have a different structural make-up from more modern songs (including modern 'folk songs'). Even here, though, we've got problems. Any number of 20th century traditional singers had music hall songs in their repertoires, yet those songs are of more recent vintage, not always anonymous, and are structurally quite different from an 18th century broadside ballad. Likewise, in terms of 'lyrical imagery' there is a big difference between 'Colin and Pheobe' and 'The Elfin Knight'.

Drawing up definitions that satisfy everyone (especially when large axes are always being ground) is such a fraught process that's it's no wonder so many people resort in practice to "I know one when I see one".